Hmm. I guess BC is less liberal than I thought. Very disappointed. Oh, well.

Yep, says more about us than about either of them.

Natalie, it's not just a partisan question, where the liberals vote that the conservative is the tool. Some would vote that way, but that's not the question. There are worser Republicans and relatively more trustworthy liberals.

For one thing, O'Reilly is more honest than Moore. Also, Moore is absolutely partisan to liberals and Democrats- a tool- in a way that O'Reilly is not to the other side.

Jebus Criminy, how bad do you have to be to rate worse than Bill O'Reilly? Yowsa.

Natalie,

I bet a lot of people don't watch Bill O'Reilly and also read BC, so they aren't aware of what an ass he is, but Michael Moore made such a HUGE ass out of himself last year at the Oscar's and lots of people watched that.

Notoriety has its advantages.

Just my guess anyway.

Michael Moore is so full of hate--after 9/11 one of his chief gripes was that they hit "people who didn't vote for Bush" (a statement so venomous I won't even bother to discuss its concurrent idiocy).

I used to watch O'Reilly fairly often back in 99-00, and I read his first book, and sorry, he is not a lockstep conservative. That is to say nothing of his proclivities.

The question as posed was unlikely to produce any other result. The bigger tool? That would be the guy who evidently would not have had as much quarrel with an al-Qaeda attack on Salt Lake City. On that basis, any disappointment that people reject Moore's hatred is a bit disppointing.

O'Reilly would be the first to admit that he can be a bit of a pompus buffoon (at least he used to be self-deprecating on the air, as he was when a lefty friend of mine dragged me to see him at Harvard).

True, O'Reilly is not a lockstep conservative. And if Moore made that statement, I would bet that it was in jest as much as it was in terribly poor taste. Is Moore being a bigger hater than O'Reilly? I doubt that.

O'Reilly on Al Franken:

"What this guy writes and says does not matter to me, other than...he insulted me in a forum where I was at a decided disadvantage, you know, he went over his time limit. It was very, very sneaky, and you know, as I said at the top of the broadcast, somebody calls you a liar to your face, you don't just laugh that off. That's an insult. In the Old West, that woulda got you shot. See in the Old West, and I woulda loved to have been in the Old West, Al and I woulda just had a little, uh, a little shootout. You know? We woulda went out, on Wilshire Avenue, and uh, six shooters, now he's a much smaller target than I am, about four foot eleven, but he's wider, and it woulda been you know, Clint Eastwood time. I woulda had the cheroot, the serape, woulda given my squint, and I woulda put a bullet right between his head. Woulda been wrong, woulda been wrong, but it was the Old West, and I would not have known any better, so I wouldn't have been held accountable because I would not have known any--now I do, now in 2003 that would have been wrong."

I haven't watched O'Reilly in years, so I can't say anything about his recent views, but around the time of his first book, he definitely wasn't a typical conservative or lock-step Republican. Back then, at least, he could honestly claim to hold moderate views. Since then, I don't know. He bores me.

But when the survey said "biggest tool," I thought to myself that O'Reilly is a mostly independent thinker who happens to be too obnoxious to watch but occasionally surprises, while Moore's views on every issue can be easily predicted. So biggest tool might suggest Moore, but I still voted for O'Reilly.

Why? Because I don't care in the slightest about Moore, while O'Reilly showed some promise before descending into the madness of idiocy he is in now. What a disappointment.

Hey, Bill, watch out for Ampersand!

Natalie, your comment made me laugh out loud! I am always amazed at my own blind spots on those rare occasions when they are pointed out to me, and I am fascinated to see them in others. I have long believed that our own views on any issue can be easily determined by which brand of extremism offends us more.

Me, I see O'Reilly's comment as somewhat funny, and I'm not really offended by it. I'm not a pacifist, though, and I have to admit that on those rare occasions I find myself in rush-hour traffic (as I was last night), I've had thoughts far more dire than the idea that some disputes are best settled with a six-gun. ;-)

However, I don't think it is a matter of opinion to say that Moore's comments were not in jest at all. He made them with no humor, and defended them with no humor. I might be less inclined to give Moore the benefit of the doubt (see earlier in this comment), but removed all doubt with his follow-up comments in this case anyway.

that old west thing is pretty moronic, yes, and i dont defend it. it is less indefensible than moore's statement, though, because franken was directly and personally antagonizing bill, the language was conditional, and he says within the statement that it is wrong.

moore's statement in jest? considering that it came immediately after 9/11, i doubt it was in jest. emotional response, probably, but those are pretty perverse emotions.

neither dude has aristotle nervously clutching his legacy, ah reckon.

lol

On the best beer poll, I'm surprised not to see Guinness as a choice for import. 'Tis my second favorite import, and isn't even an option!

Oh well, I only get one vote anyway.

I suspect the spouse would've voted for Guinness, as well. When I was pregnant, SU continually tried to get me to drink it because of its purported nutritional qualities. I demurred, of course. I'm not a drinker, anyway, but Guinness is one of the few beers I can tolerate. My vote, however, went to Red Stripe. Hooray, beer!

Oh, yes, and absolutely the "tool" poll tells us more about the voters than about the subject of the vote.

That's why they are the top tools. I voted for Moore because he is more dangerous than O'Reilly. A lot of people, especially outside the country, really like Moore, think he's funny, and are influenced by him as a result. O'Reilly is just a blowhard, who even supporters think is a jerk. Also, Moore is considered to be an artiste by many - poor fools.

Mike is dangerous. Dangerous like Peter Tosh: ready to crush -- nonviolently, of course -- the shitstem. That's a good kind of dangerous, in my book.

Maybe Guiness isn't on there because it's stoudt. But where's the Harp?

Yes, and Bass (though it is ale).

People, I am only allowed ten choices per poll, damn, I knew this was gonna be a problem.

Sorry I screwed up, but I do love Harp - and Natalie, Red Stripe is on there just for you!

You omitted St. Ides and Baltika.

Marbles in hand, I'm going home.

Woo hoo! Another reason why I love that woman.

Has to be Newcastle Brown Ale-It makes me feel all funny inside.

this poll is discriminating to those of us who are under 21 and law abiding...

I like Newcastle a lot too, but how can you vote against Anchor Steam?

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
Rogue Dead Guy Ale
Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout
Mackesson Triple Stout
Wolf Tongue Brewery's Mr. Hoppy (alas, they're out of business.)
Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock
Paulaner Oktoberfest
Rogue Smoke
Alaskan Amber

For the record, I quite enjoy all ten of the choices on the Import/Microbrew list, and all four of Taloran's list that I've actually had. I recognize that Dawn only has ten choices, and Dawn, why is it a problem that the poll is generating conversation?

Still, Dos Equis and Sapporo over Guinness? You've got to be kidding! ;-)

Eric, Anchor Steam is excellent. I haven't had any in a few years, but it might be in my top three or four. Newcastle is my current #1, though.

Newcastle is great on tap, but it doesn't travel particularly well in bottles. I prefer beers that make you feel like you've been hit by a bale of hops.

And, thank you Dawn for leaving Corona off the list.

Hmmm, Taloran, good point. I happen to quite enjoy Newcastle in bottles, but it is definitely superior on tap. Which made me realize another label that isn't on the list: Fat Tire. I haven't had that in the bottle, but on tap it is quite decent.

I haven't brought up several Texas-only beers to avoid making other people feel jealous.

Fat Tire is ubiquitous here in Colorado. While I find it tasty, I do not find it excellent - there are dozens of Colorado beers I prefer. At one point there were 104 microbreweries in our state. I don't know what the number is now.

Ubiquity is definitely an alienating factor. Snobbishness, I know, but if I could get Fat Tire anywhere I went, I probably wouldn't bother.

I like Fat Tire when I'm eating or shooting pool or something else. I prefer Newcastle when I'm just talking or otherwise spending more time concentrating on the beer itself.

According to the Association of Brewers at beertown.org, there are currently 98 breweries in Colorado (I had to go look it up after my last post). Several of them are chains - Rock Bottom, Hops, CB & Potts, so the number is actually a bit lower.

a coupla weeks ago i found what is easily the best porter i've ever had: Perkuno's Hammer from the Heavyweight Brewing company....mmmm, my mouth is watering just thinking about it.

OK, Mark... where is Heavyweight located? I love a good porter, and I'd like to try it, if they bring it into the state.

However, I must say, the best Porter on the planet is Samuel Smith's Taddy Porter, at the brewery, fresh from the oak cask. If you don't believe me, go to Tadcaster, Yorkshire, and try it. You'll convert, I'm sure.

i got it at a liquor store in acton, MA.

i think the brewery is in new jersey.

Cleveland has two excellent "craft" brewers in Great lakes and Crooked River - check them out.

Just looked up Heavyweight Brewing - looks like some VERY interesting brews!

michael moore

Amen to the Colorado beers! It's good to see New Belgium got Loft back out for the summer---my favorite, hands down.