I don't know whether I like this new "outfit" yet. Especially the fact that Spike is heavily promoted seems odd to me. I've seen one cast-promo, some stills, one Angel promo, and at least 5 Spike promos. They should just call it "The Spike Show" and be done with it.

Sorry, I'm a little bitter.

Well, I don't want to be all spoiler, but from seeing (and here where you want to be spoiler-free is where you cover your ears and do the la-la-la dance) the first two eps, Spike only shows up in the last minute of the first ep, and he is a ghost in the second.

However, since he is a ghost, he gets to haunt Capt. Forehead.


It is far from the Spike show. Don't forget that Angel is Spike's grandfather. It's really a lot of family feud.

The show has taken a whole different direction, and Spike is giving it an anchor in BtVS.

The first two eps I've seen are great.

Just a taste: "It's like Joannie Loves Chachie meets The Sorrow and the Pity call it Joannie Loves Pity".

I haven't read that many spoilers (okay, the ones you named I knew *g*), because I want to see the show spoilerfree. But I haven't made peace with the fact that Spike is on "Angel" now yet. I didn't like him on BtVS (especially on season 7 he and Buffy were terrible) and I don't see (yet) what good he could be for the show. But I'll speak up again when I've seen the show sometime next week. Perhaps I'll change my opinion.

Why, oh why, can't I really get into Angel? I'm a huge Buffy fan and just can't get excited about Angel. What's my problem?

Short answers, please. ;-)

Did you like Buffy as much after, say, Season 5? Because it seemed to me that the show lost something when Buffy no longer had a "day gig". And this has always been the case with Angel. They just fight evil, without having to balance being "champions" with leading normal lives (like going to school or working).

It did slide downhill, big-time, when she quit the burger joint.

Come to think of it, the writers seemed to really lose focus on both shows about that time. I guess I tolerated it with Buffy because I alread loved the show. Angel was still in a trial period with me, and flunked out.

Put another way, Buffy slid from B+ to C, Angel slid from C to D-.

Actually I was referring to when Buffy dropped out of school; her jobs never lasted long enough to take seriously.

For me, Angel has been the better show over the last couple of years; for one thing they've been introducing more interesting villians. Plus they've been touring some interesting new dimensions.

I didn't care for the introduction of either Buffy's sister or Angel's son. And the whole Spike-Buffy thing was just annoying. Introducing new characters and new permutations of old characters often indicates that the premise of the show is played out. So I think you have a point about the writers seeming to lose focus a couple years ago. Neither show has been as good as Buffy the Vampire Slayer in its prime. But that's an unusually high standard to maintain.

Still and all, I'm looking forward to the new season of Angel.

I came late to the game with both Buffy and Angel, really only getting caught up with the DVD sets.

I haven't seen AtS s3, so can't really compare and contrast with BtVS. However, it was clear that Joss just spread himself too thin.

Angel is a different show from Buffy, mostly because Buffy is about growing up, and Angel is about grownups.

Since Angel is currently the only show with the secret Whedon ingredients currently airing, and they've completely renovated the show, you should give it a chance.

It's less dark, and apparantly it will be more episodic, rather than the one long arc which was last season.

There's a feature at Zap2it about how "Angel" is trying to balance bringing in the Buffy audience with making a show which new viewers can get into.

I think, JR is my new best friend: exactly what I'm thinking about both shows;-) And I'd just like to add that it's a shame that Charisma Carpenter is no longer on "Angel". This has to be mentioned here, she's been an important part of this show from the very beginning. Her leaving "Angel" is a big loss, I think. Now there's only Amy Acker left with the big bad vampire. And she might be just a little skinny to hold the fort.

Actually Acker has company, with Harmony (Mercedes McNab) recurring as Angel's secretary (and wickedly funny). Plus the new character Eve who is the liason to the Senior Partners at W&H.

I miss Cordy, but I think her character stopped developing, and she certainly wouldn't fit into the new scenario.

I neither take Harmony nor this Eve character very serious. And I don't think Cordy stopped developping. She changed from Higher Being to crazy pregnant monster from hell in one season. I think her storyline is not done yet, but who cares what I think *sigh*. Certainly not Joss. But the one good thing is: Connor won't be on the show anymore!

I actually tuned in again during the last season, and I have to admit I watched regularly. In the end, I felt let down, though. In fact, I think I felt let down during the season, but I kept believing it would get better. It didn't. That ridiculous tripe about Connor seeing worm-face for who she is and still acting like he was under her spell: crap. If time spent in a hell dimension is enough to screw with someone's mind that much, it would show up in more ways than a strange love for worm-faced freaks.

Ah well. I've missed a few eps of Angel now. I wonder if I'll be able to pick it up...

I spent all of last season wishing Connor would just disappear. And I got my wish. He's gone, never existed (sort of a reverse-Dawn).

They got rid of almost everything from the past two seasons. At the end of last season, Lilah showed up to make them an offer.

Angel, Fred, Wesley and Gunn are now in charge of the LA office of Wolfram & Hart. They have a brand-new office tower and a full staff.

Fred gets a complete lab and an assistant. Gunn has had an encounter in the White Room, and has changed, and Wes has the complete library resources of W&H. Angel has an office with specially treated windows which let the sun in without the dusting problem.

It's ground-floor time but without the undefined problems of a pilot.

I'm looking forward to the series myself - and am looking forward to some testy interaction between Angel and Spike. Think that Cordy's character got short shrift last year (I'm still not completely convinced that she's still not on the higher plane and the figure we saw wasn't some kind of doppleganger), but like the rest of the audience, I'm glad to see Connor gone. Now if only they can give Gunn something to do. . .

Now if only they can give Gunn something to do. . .

Not be all spoiler, but W&H give Gunn lots to do. A complete make-over. Just as Wesley was totally changed over the last two seasons, except it happens in the first ep.

But I can't say anymore or I'll hate myself.

You have much more restraint than me, Jim.

I think this season will be intresting. I am kinda mad though about the abrupt wrap up of all the on going plots that Skip did. Everything that had happened say...sense the endish of season one was merely so that Jasmine could come? Kinda boring, to me at least. I would like to see Cordy come back. What if she is still on the higher plane? That would be cool, and would explain the coma she was in. Also, I would like to see Connor come back, this time with a lot more depth, and a lot less anger. They really missed out on what could of been a great character. Think about it. Connor hasn't been effected before by magic manipulation, but now he has also lived a normal life as opposed to just growing up in a hell dimension. I think it would be cool. Spike needs to go, they need to fix the damage that last season did to the overall story, and take another swing at things. I mean, how do the PTB feel now that Angel is now running W&H? And if Skip is to be believed, then since Cordy became a half-demon, all the vivions would be fake and Angel would of been for sure not going on his destined path of redemption. I say end the season with some very mad PTB and having them bring Angel back to his quest for redemption!!! PLus, we love Cordy at least, and I want a better Connor!!!

I have some bad news, for you guys.
Don't let the ending of Angel Season 3 and 4 fool you. Angel Season 5 is going to be different than both of them.
Angel gets the ring that allows him to go into the sunlite w/o burning. He's going to become a controlled ANGELUS.
But his soul poofs every time he turns into vamp-man. The bad thing is them managing evil, like some of you mentioned earlier, you would think Gavin Park was a sweetheart compared to Wes and Angel in Season 5.

Sorry Joss looks like you f**cked up big time!. Its a shame, a great, adventuristic season like in angel Season 1 and 2 was so nice.
You really messed up in 3/4 and 5.

And o BTW for buffy, remeber how cool Seasons 1,2,3 were with the master,mayor and faith and everything. And remeber what the hell they did with the INITIATIVE and Glory , that was so off. In the mid-end of season 3 and all of season 4 , Cordy Becomes a Luxury Prostitute. Jesus who didn't she com-shuck, momentize or sleep with.

Buffy And Angel episodes should actually match the criteria HORROR/with some comedy.

Even though all of the angels and buffys were extremeley time-killing and fun to watch. They Messed up with alot of stuff. That I think belonged to FREEDY VS.Jason LOL

Kids, just because I indulge in oblique nonsense, doesn't mean you should too. All I can say is that it has worked for me.

Even though all of the angels and buffys were extremeley time-killing and fun to watch. They Messed up with alot of stuff. That I think belonged to FREEDY VS.Jason LOL

hi can somebody please tell me when season 5 is please thanks