"I have reason to believe we ALL will be received in Graceland."

Paul was prescient.

I was received graciously at Graceland. Hated Memphis, though.

As we have discussed in the comments section of another post (forget which one at the moment), I have a higher opinion of Elvis P than you do, but I am happy to see you absolve him of racism. Re the color issue - there is doubtless some truth to your position, but Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and Fats Domino are hardly wasting away in obscurity. Chuck was the very first person inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Yeah, but he traveled through hell to get there.

Yes, but a fair amount of it was his own doing. The Mann Act thing was total racist horseshit, but I'm sure I don't have to relate all of his other exploits that had nothing to do with race.

Of course I wasn't referring to his stints in jail, etc., as they are not germane to my point. The Mann Act and living in a pigmentationist society are hellish enough, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, vile, but with his wit, savvy, intelligence and good looks (brown-eyed handsome man), he seemed to work his way through the system with relative ease BEFORE he became terribly bitter and worse, careless.

Bitterness is not good, but it is all too understandable.

As for carelessness, I would actually use the word "stupidity." Same with James Brown and a host of others. Being forced to be on the bad end of bigotry is no excuse for criminal behavior.

The unfortunate fact of 50s life is that, as you know, radio was segregated. Maybe the coolest white kids were listening to "race music," but Elvis served as the bridge that brought the music to white radio.

I mean, we can debate forever whether he deserves his position in Rock. But the fact is, if he hadn't taken rockin' music to the white kids, rock might never have become the huge phenomenon that it became. (Pat Boone sure wasn't gonna make it happen! And of the rockabillies, Jerry Lee was too one-note in his style, Carl Perkins was not a prolific enough songwriter, and Johnny Cash had more of the billy than the rocka in his blood. Elvis, on the other hand, could sing a pretty wide range of styles).

Elvis's major contribution, imo, was simply in being the bridge between the music and the white audience. And whether we like it or not, it had to be a white artist (and one who could rock) to make that happen.

Okay, that's Elvis P's place in history. But I'm with you on Costello/MacManus. He's definitely the more brilliant of the two Elvi.

I would have easily let Natalie's silly column pass had I not spent the weekend listening to Elvis -- the superb 30 #1 Hits cited above. To me, Elvis' kingship is beyond question, and much as I admire Costello's song-writing and songcraft, he doesn't even come close. Anyway you slice it, Costello has never been the king of anything; he's not the writer that Dylan is, he's not the performer Mick Jagger is, and he's never been more than an adequate singer. Elvis was not a songwriter, but as a singer and performer -- as an interpreter of songs -- he cuts almost everyone. And those early records, a number of which he produced himself -- according to Peter Guralnick, mind you -- are just incomparable classics. I happen to have Bib Mama Thornton's version of "Hound Dog" and it is NOT as good as Elvis version for a number of reasons; partly because it doesn't have that superb backbeat by D. J. Fontana, which does that rat-a-tat thing on the chorus.

Rodney: I proclaim Costello as King merely as a comparison to Presley. I was pointing out that IMO (to which I am entitled), Costello is superior to the man to whom the title of King is misapplied. I did not say that EC is the best songwriter in rock history.

Yes, many of EP's Sun records are terrific, including his version of "Hound Dog." But given the choice between the two, I would listen to Big Mama Thornton's rendition every time.

Cindy: "Race music" -- now there are two words that make me physically ill. I know that what you are saying is true, as is made plain in my last paragraph. However, I don't have to like it or accept it, and I will always speak the truth that while EP was talented, his place in history came largely on the back of hatred, fear, and bigotry. He won in an unfair fight.

Elvis is the only king rock and roll ever had; sorry, there's only room for one. Granted, Elvis had the unquestionable advantage of being white in gaining popularity. A half-century later, we have advanced to the point where we can listen to a lot of music from the period and leave race aside in making our judgment. Guess what? Elvis still wins -- in a landslide. When you get right down to it, he just plain IS rock and roll; he's the essence of it in terms of style, performance, vocal ability, everything. Better than Jerry Lee, better than Little Richard, better than Chuck Berry, better than all subsequent contenders.

That is your opinion; you are entitled to it.

I'm basically with Rodney here - re Nat's comment: "EP was talented, his place in history came largely on the back of hatred, fear, and bigotry"

While there is truth here for society at large, it is important to say those feelings did not come from Elvis. His respect and obvious LOVE of black music was part and parcel of what made him great. It isn't Elvis's fault that the nation was the way it was in 1954 - inf fact, it can be easily argued few have done more to advance to cause of equality than Elvis for shining such a bright light on what was, say, 60% black-based music. And please don't forget, Elvis didn't imitate black music - he synthesized black R&B and white country/boogie into something new and trans-racial.

One can love Elvis C - which I do - and still see a comparison to Elvis P as a comparison between Sinatra and Como.

I believe I made the comment that it wasn't Presley's fault above.

Quote (emphasis added): "Obviously, pigmentationism helped Presley's ascension, as did his own talent. That's not the singer's fault; it was the way things were. But I am reasonably sure that Elvis was not a bigot."

You, naturally, are entitled to your own opinion on the matter of EC v. EP, as I am to mine. As is nearly always the case, we will have to agree to disagree, or A2D for short.

Natalie, you made that point clearly, much to my satisfaction.

Oh, goody.

It's the idea that Fats Domino -- let alone Bill Kenny of the Inkspots -- was superior to EP that gets my back up. It's one thing for Elvis to be courteous and deferential regarding these two; agreement requires a little more defense, I think.

One other thing I thought I'd throw in, regarding why Elvis liked the singers he did. I happened to know Elvis' favorite singer, Brook Benton, and I conducted what is quite probably the last extended interview with him; it was around November of 1987, and he was dead a few months later. Brook was a great vocal imitator. One time while I was interviewing him, he showed me -- in a way I couldn't possibly duplicate in print -- how his own vocal style developed. He'd say: "Ivory Joe Hunter sang like this..." and boom, delivers a perfect vocal impression of Hunter. "Nat King Cole was more like this..." and bam, it's like you're listening to Cole on a record. "My voice cwas kind of a mix, like this..." And here comes Brook's own velvety voice, and you could hear Hunter and you could hear King.

I'm not sure exactly why it is Elvis loved Benton and Dean Martin -- another odd favorite -- as much as he did; I think it had something to do with the smoothness of delivery, and I'd like to think in Benton's case there was such a range of history in it. That is exactly what I hear in Elvis: a vocal delivery that is almost chameleon-like, that can become anything it touches.

gumdrops

To be totally honest, while Elvis Presley may be a greater icon, Elvis Costello is the superior musician.

The man writes his own music, performs his own music, AND sings his own music.

Plus, if given a choice of sitting through a greatest hits album of either, I would take Costello anyday. But I love them both.

Nice job Natalie.

You're giving too much credit to the fact that Elvis Costello writes his own songs. So do a lot of people, and it accounts for nothing in the end. That doesn't mean Costello has ever written songs as masterful as any of Elvis' greatest, or that he's performed them as well, or that he's made recordings that are as historic. Has Elvis Costello ever made a historic recording at all?

What do you mean by historic? I find his whole repertoire historic and I think in time he will be as well known for the generations that he appealed to as did Elvis Presley.

They are just different. And no, being able to write songs is a superior talent to being able to perform them. That's just obvious. Lots of people can sing, but not everyone can write a great song - make that like 25 great songs.

Dawn, I am astonished to hear you take this position in general, but especially about songwriting vs performing: there are also hundreds of songwriters who can't sing - are they more important in the long run than great singers who don't write?

I am amazed that otherwise intelligent people don't see the big picture here. I absolutely, uneviquivocally, bet-my-left-nut-on-it guarantee that 100 years from now Elvis Costello will be a footnote and Elvis Presley will still be The King.

Well I sure as hell don't find "his whole repertoire historic" -- although he has made some fine records -- and I certainly don't think he'll ever be as remotely well-known as his namesake. Simply put, Elvis Costello is not an icon, and he doesn't completely define an age or a time or a place. Never has, never will.

And I'm sorry, I don't agree at all about songwriting being a superior talent to singing. Elvis, like Frank Sinatra, is, in many cases, superior to most of what he sings. My guess is that you can, over time, learn songwriting; God knows lots of people do it. But singing? Singing like Elvis? A gift. You either can do it or you can't.

Eric: To some, perhaps most. But majority is no proof of correctness.

Good point, but at the icon level the public seems to know what it's doing: Marilyn, Groucho, Lucy, Elvis, Beatles

Sometimes, only sometimes. I do not look to the public for affirmation of what and whom I revere. Its help is neither wanted nor needed, thanks.

Individual art and one's leanings in taste have little to do with mass marketing of an icon.

Elvis Costello isn't a historic icon, but there is little doubt that he will find a place in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame along with lots of other people who aren't as famous as Elvis Presley.

All I am saying (and I am not referring to your Three Dog Night hostility) is that there is no comparison in who was graced with the most natural musical talent, and was bestowed the most charisma.

Elvis the pelvis wins the crowds, Elvis the artist wins the critical acclaim.

Never be surprised by my opinions, I conform to no one philosophy.

She has spoken

In Re: songwriting v. singing

While it may be true that it takes a little extra talent to write your own stuff, it takes even more talent to take a song someone else has written and make it completely your own.

There are only a few people who can pull it off, Sinatra, Elvis and George Strait are the 3 masters of it, off the top of my head.

The Queen has left the building.

(you rock, dawn!)

Well, Natalie and Dawn, surely Elvis summed up the two of you best: a hard headed woman is a thorn in the side of man.

Elvis Presley's true talent was his abilty to completely identify with a song. The emotion of the song became his, and sometimes his interpretation of it transcended or even changed whatever feeling or emotion the songwriter was attempting to convey. He was a wonderful stage performer, true, but he was also a gifted arranger. Some people on these posts are classifying him, rather disdainfully, I might add, as just a singer, or just a stage performer. The fact is, he was as well-rounded a performer as any in his generation. He didn't write, true, but let's not forget that the era of the singer/songwriter is a relatively new one in the over all history of music.

I have to agree with you Darren.Elvis P.
really could take a song and make it his
own.This helps to overcome the fact that
he wrote very lttle of his own material.
Very few performers have a strong enough
musical personality,sense of style and
unique enough voice to do it.Ray Charles
Al Green & Jerry Lee Lewis(who like "E"
wrote little of his own material but who
could make a damned meal out of another
persons song)all come to mind as some of
the singers able to recut a song so well
as to make the original seem obsolete,
irregardless of the age or genre of the
tune.To wit:Rev.Al Green makes deep soul
masterpieces out of Buck Owens "Together
Again" and Kris Kristofferson's "For The
Good Times".Digressing here though a bit
aren't I? Anyway,Elvis was a great "Song
Stylist" as well as a good performer and
great singer,I agree with you 100%.

I have to agreet that taking someone else's song and making it your own is much more difficult than just writing your own material. For God's sake, people are still talking about his songs, some of which are 50 years old! That's gotta count for something.

I think Elvis is overrated, but he was a hell of a musician, no doubt.

Hey josh
what are you some old man, talking
about 50 year old songs, cmon now.

Hey Anthony, why do you follow me to every poll and start running your mouth? Is this the only way you can feel good about yourself? Must be.

Face it - Elvis had more musical talent in his finger than any rapper has in their whole body.

So c'mon, cry some more!

Yes i do follow you around to every site.
Cuzz like i said before i am a psyco.
Thanks for showing me how to spell my
new name.

You're not a psycho, you're just another punk.

No Josh get it through your head
you will lose. I aint a punk you are.
You constantly cuss and carry on like a
punk.

How do you like my new name.

Your new name is gay and it doesn't make you look tough, so quit trying to scare everyone.

JOSH ANTHONY SOUNDS MORE STRAIGHT THAN
YOU AND I LIKE THAT NAME PSYCHO.

Christine, I don't care what you think. Anthony is a punk, nothing more, nothing less. Funny how you can say stuff like that when you don't even know me.

jOSH PSYCHO HAS GIRLS ON HIS SIDE, BOY
AINT DAT IRONIC

I have a feeling that "Christine" is really Anthony. He just made up an imaginary name, like "Jose". What a brilliant guy!

Ha Ha

Anthony says "Ha Ha". That was pretty intelligent. Everyone give him a round of applause for that brilliant statement.

Anthony said ha ha? It was clearly Christine that said that wimpie statement, ha ha.