PLANT KILLERS! plants have feelings, too!

peace.

Good point TT, remember Stevie Wonder's "Secret Life of Plants"? (he'd like to forget it too). By the way, I enjoy your brief, peaceful outbursts.

people should be allowed to eat meat, that there is nothing wrong with eating meat, that they should not be harrassed or denigrated for doing so

Who's harassing you? Morrissey seems fairly level-headed about the whole thing, actually -- far from militant. He's been a vegetarian so long, he's way beyond the preachy stage. In this interview, he's provoked to say pro-vegetarian things. It's not an attack on steak-eaters, per se. He understands that it's a hard habit to break. And he's right that vegetarianism is better for you. At least, he's right based on everything I've ever read about the subject.

However, the assertion that meat doesn't taste good could only come from someone who doesn't eat it.

people should be allowed to eat meat, that there is nothing wrong with eating meat, that they should not be harrassed or denigrated for doing so

If you are truly comfortable with eating meat, there's no reason you should feel denigrated by the fact that others find it unappealling and, well, disgusting.

Thanks for posting this interview, though. Makes me want to listen to the album again.

Whether meat tastes good or not doesn't really matter. What matters is that there is no reason to kill animals for their meat, especially when numerous studies show that people with vegetarian diets are on average healthier than meat eaters. If there is no reason to eat meat, whether its tasty or not, killing animals to eat them is therefore unnecessary and immoral. Maybe "murder" in the strictest definition is incorrect, as murder means killing illegally. But eating meat is unethical and completely indefensible for anybody in the western world with the many vegetarian choices available to them. Modern day factory farming is undeniably cruel and environmentally destruction and harmful to the communities who live near them. Everybody should listen closely to Morissey's Meat is Murder lyrics and seriuosly think about them and consider changing their diets. It was written about 20 years ago, but the factory farming situation has gotten worse and the lyrics are as relevant today as they ever were.

Andrea, I think vegetarianism is a noble and worhtwhile way of life, but I do not believe killing animals for food is unethical or immoral. I think killing animals for no good reason - food, clothing, shelter, experiments for the betterment of mankind - is unethical and immoral.

Being a vegetarian of many years I agree with everything that Morrissey and Andrea have said, and consider Morrissey's making people aware of animal suffering to be honourable and necessary. I personally feel very saddened that due to so much ignorance the cruel system of mass animal slaughter thrives - a system which causes many more deaths than animal testing or hunting, by the way. Harmless, beautiful, living beings are "processed" into just several dead products, waiting to be consumed. Please look beyond the packaging, the false advertising and your conditioned thinking. If nobody ever acted to change inhumane systems, women and non-white people would still be just the objects of wealthy white men.

and that is a noble and ethical perspective I, and a few billion others, don't happen to share. Meat is meat, muder is murder: there is no correlation between the two assertions

thank god for the comment system, otherwise i might never have discovered this slice of morrissey wonder. Thanks, Eric. I eat meat, although i often find myself feeling guilty on account of it. Not neccesarily on account of what Morrissey or anyone else says (i don't think i even KNOW any vegetarians), it's jsut hard to shake those imagines Sir Stephen Patrick alludes to in the interview.

But another Morrissey interview, man. What more could a fella want.

Must finish part 2 of my morrissey retrospective thingy one of these days...

glad you found it Duker - I know MANY vegetarians and you probably do too, although they're harder to spot than, say, Asians.

I agree the vegetarian philosophy is compelling and has the virtue of consistency, but the disconnect for me is equating things that are preferable -- not treating any living thing cruelly -- with things that are "rights." Animals are simply not human and so do not occupy the same ethical/moral space

glad you found it Duker - I know MANY vegetarians and you probably do too, although they're harder to spot than, say, Asians.


haha you made me laugh the hell right out there, is what. asians indeed.

I am pleased.

Those four teeth, you know the ones, they call them eye teeth or canines, are for RIPPING AND TEARING OF MEAT, not tomatoes!

Man is omniverous, always has been and always should be!

You eat your sprouts, I'll stick to my Del Monico! with a good salad on the side!

Not trying to be a wise ass here, but if the world went vegetarian, what would happen to all the cattle, chickens, etc.? Would they have any useful purpose? Would we let them roam free or become feral? Really, I'm not sure where perfect vegetariansm would lead, but I haven't thought it out, either - just a random thought that occured to me & I thought I'd ask about it.

Animals did roam free and care for themselves before we came along. Think about it. How many cats have you seen that still kill birds and mice?

I'm not vegen, fyi, but I do understand that nature isn't stupid.

I believe VH's point is that we have a huge animal population bred specifically for, let's face it, human consumption, and I don't think nature would know what the hell to do with them other than have some other predators get fat happy and lazy off of them

Thanks, Mr. O - that's it in a nutshell. I do understand about cats, and where I live, it's common to see deer out of the city, but I can't see wild cows running about.

VH,

My use of the word stupid wasn't directed toward you, just so you know :)

We discussed this issue for a week in an environmental ethics class I took. The introductory course doesn't make me qualified for the final judgement, but after a lot of thought I decided that things would be capable of balancing themselves out.

Domesticated animals would become feral after a few generations. Fortunately for them, a generation only lasts 10-15 years.

Yeah, cows as we know them, in America, might be screwed. But they're a breed that require lots of open ranges and minimal predators. Fortunately, there are plenty of animals that can run faster and still be able to pick up their slack.

Here in America,we tend to eat more meat
than is necessary. We base our meals
around what should go with certain types
of meat,the meat being the center of the
meal.

Before refrigeration,freezers & all the
wonders of a modern kitchen,people were
more inclined towards a diet that leaned
heavily towards vegetables & grains.
Of course this had a lot to do with the
fact that more people were still growing
food for their own consumption & living
in rural areas.

Most countries on the planet still do
this and do not have half of the heart
disease,ulcers,digestion dilemmas and
weight problems that we in the USA have
largely due to our over-consumption of
meat.

Personally I've got no problem w/ eating
meat but I do try to keep a balanced
diet eating lots of salad,veggies,fruit,
grains & nuts as well.

No offense taken, mr.b. Like I said, I haven't thought this one through. I don't mind people telling me what they think is best - it's a free country (or free internet as it were).

However, I dislike implied moral superiority, and honestly, I'm not referring to anyone currently involved in this discussion. But there are some individuals and groups that seem to assume they're on the moral high ground on this one; maybe they are, but that hasn't been proven yet one way or the other.

I have a friend who doesn't eat meat, but doesn't consider himself a vegetarian - says simply that he doesn't like the taste. No moral judgement implied here at all, one way or another. To top it off, he's a bit of a redneck (which of course is me feeling morally superior, but that's a whole different discussion perhaps).

Just so you know, I went veg for a few months about 5 or 6 years ago - felt great, really. But old habits die hard - at least I eat more fruits & veggies than I used to.

hey, im all for eating meat, that is if you enjoy murder. putthing that asside i think it is wrong. everything that morisy has said in the above article i feel to be right.

My wife and I became vegetarians recently, primarily for health reasons. When you look at every medical study less meat/more veggie is always best.

Also we're losing weight, digestion is improved (we both had our gall bladders removed due to infections/stones while we were meat eaters). Vegetarians live an average of 8 years longer than meat eaters, and a veggie lifestyle is much less taxing on our planets resources. Take a look at how much grain/feed/water/energy it takes to produce 1lb. of beef.

Also a shift toward veggie lifestyle on a wider scale will mean less long term health costs to society in general (some forms of cancer are linked to meat consumption, others may be as more research is done). Many of the carcinogens in our bodies come from pesticides, which we ingest in meat/dairy products. Cows are given heavy antibiotic doses and synthetic growth hormones to make them over produce milk at an unnatural rate. These substances are banned in the European Union, Canada, Australia and other parts of the "western" world, but guess what- not in the USA and we continue to ingest them with little certainty of the long term repercussions.

So sure, we like animals too, but there are many personal (selfish) reasons we went veggie and there really is no downside. We are able to purchase products that taste just like meat and eat all we want - no starvation diets here. As to the question of where all these uneaten cows will go...the shift of the eating habits of a population will not happen overnight, the numbers can easily be gradually reduced- remember factory farmers mate/fertilize cattle to meet demand and population control can be achieved just as in any other domesticated animal.

I would heartily recommend the Food Revolution by John Robbins. Do it for yourself-not because someone is laying a guilt trip on you. Good health and God bless - Lee

I think there are lots of excellent reasons to become a vegetarian and I applaud those who do, but it isn't for everyone, and it is important for those who espouse vegetarianism to realize and accept this.

Would the world be a better place if everyone were vegetarian? I don't know - the ramifications are vast

I personally feel that it is generally ethically wrong for humans to eat meat in today's world. (barring issues of survival or serious health reasons) Yes, we are animals, but we also have the capability to think and reflect about our actions.

I became a vegetarian when I was twelve years old (I'm 31 now) because I couldn't pick up a chicken leg without thinking of my own leg. Once I started thinking about it, I could no longer separate the meat from the living creature.

In the last 20 years, I have heard every defensive argument imaginable from meat-eaters who are threatened by my personal choice and my personal, spirtitual belief. I rarely discuss my feelings on this matter unless I am asked. I do not preach to people and I do not enjoy being the recipient of preaching. However, one thing is irrefutable: the conditions in today's factory farms are inhumane and deplorable.

Please read up on it, and take a stand when you go to the grocery store. Buy cage free eggs and free range meats. Say no to the industrialized production of meat and dairy. Support small family farms. Please consider buying your meats from localharvest.org, whole foods or other establishments that support the humane treatment of animals.

"I couldn't pick up a chicken leg without thinking of my own leg."

Mirrors my own experience. I do eat meat on occasion (mostly poultry and fish, and rarely from farms or factories), but I do feel guilty about it. And I do believe vegetarians and vegans are on higher moral ground than most carnivores. I pray that one day I will be as good as them.

Meat is murder. And if you think eating plants is bad, because they have feelings too, then all the more reason to be vegetarian, as meat eaters consume up to 20 times more vegetable matter in the process of cultivating carcasses to consume.

if human beings tasted good, i'm sure the holocaust would have gone unnoticed. i find it insane that people will stick up for a lifestyle harmful to all living beings, including themselves, simply for a sensation they experience in their mouths that lasts the duration of a meal. unprotected sex feels great, but that doesn't make me want to risk my life for it.

Lions kill other animals for food, why are we expected to be the bigger person and just eat fruit and fucking veg when there's loads of other species snacking away on all sorts of little animals out there and even the odd human? I agree that the method in which we kill the animals is fairly disgusting but, and this isn't exactly backing my argument up well, I just don't think about that too long.

you can still eat lots being a vegaterian like they have veg. chicken nuggets!!!!!! they are way healthier too! plus they taste the same as chicken!

I am not a meat eater nor vegaterian. My diet consists of insects. My book, Better Health Through Bugs will help to give a better understanding between a vegaterian or meat diet.

Dr. Shamelstucker
Phd. CEO, MCA

I love The Smihts, loved Meat is Murder - but if it came down to a choice between The Smiths and the dirty great big steak I have once a week, Morrisey would get the flick ...

Rough Trade records defunct? No.
The Smiths not funky?! Certainly not, some of those songs basically ARE funk tracks with Moz wailing over the top, Barbarism Begins at home being the most obvious example. It's sometimes amusing to note that Andy Rourke is basically playing funk basslines wherever he possiblly can, he'll slip in a little funk pattern in the most unlikely of songs & places, it should'nt work, but it does, gloriously, equally as responsible as Moz & Marr for the unique sound of the Smiths, Tremendous player, criminally underrated. Meat? love it!

"if human beings tasted good, i'm sure the holocaust would have gone unnoticed. i find it insane that people will stick up for a lifestyle harmful to all living beings, including themselves, simply for a sensation they experience in their mouths that lasts the duration of a meal. unprotected sex feels great, but that doesn't make me want to risk my life for it"

What absolute twaddle.

Most people have the common sense to know deep down that it's a bit of a non argument. People have always eaten meat throughout human existance, it is quite literally the most natural thing in the world, it's called the food-chain, it's called life. Open your mouth & look in the mirror, you'll find you have four teeth designed for the purpose of tearing apart bits of flesh, except it.

Some helpful tips for beginners to bushcraft:

When harvesting deer or wild boar I prefer to used a bow with a high draw weight - at least a 100 pounds to ensure a clean kill, try to get within 30 yards of your prey, if the animal is hit but only wounded, administer a quick "coup de gras" with a blunt heavy object, I find my camping mallet a suitable tool for such occasions.
When you have stripped & prepared your carcass you'll want to cook your meat slowly on a moderate heat to ensure it is fully cooked & tender throughout. Enjoy.

Ray
x