Blogcritics: Comments on On Criticism

Comment by Kevin Murphy

Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:20:06 EDT

Jacob, If I understand you correctly, there's no reason to put bad disco on except where you can't help it. If your'e playing CD's, you may get a song you don't like mixed in with songs you do. Or if listening to the radio, you can't always choose the station. Or maybe you know the some of the people dancing with you love certain songs, even though you don't, so you play them. Or, it could be you're somewhere where everybody is dancing, except you have a broken leg. In that case, if they played bad disco, you might enjoy it. The other issue is that I don't think there is an absolute ranking independent of all other variables. YMCA is a crowdpleaser that I wouldn't play if there were just one or two of us. Does that make it a bad song? If I've heard I Will Survive a bunch of times since I last heard Knock On Wood, I'd rather hear Knock On Wood even though I wouldn't say I like it any better. So I'm going to have to agree with Von Mises that value is not within objects, but within us. As we change, so then the value we place on things changes with us. That what we considered bad at some point can become good, and vice versa.

Comment by Jacob Lalonde

Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:09:30 EDT

There is certainly nothing wrong with that scenario, in fact it describes the reality of what I do when I pick out a CD. The cover art that catches my eye, the mood I am in, and a half-dozen phrases from memorable parts of songs all conspire to help me make a selection. There is no engineering analysis, I couldn't care less at that point about the artists intent. So if we strip away the engineering aspects and leave the purely artistic effect we might come to the conclusion that Mozart doesn't quite do it on the dance floor. But what about 'bad' disco? Why should we put that on when we could put Donna Summer on to dance the night away. Is there a time/mood for bad disco? My gut reaction is human souls may overlap, and can agree on some kind of artistic aesthetic however basic. After all people may disagree on genre but these are 'generally' derived from the same chords, scales, etc. that have been used for centuries. I am interested in your thoughts on this rambling post.

Comment by Kevin Murphy

Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:41:12 EDT

Jacob, The engineering analysis would be based on intent. The artistic analysis would be based on the effect it had on you, regardless of the intent. But in either case, the question of how much the effect matters to you is important as well. If Disco is a one note song (fun), can't it be eclipsed by music that provides a full range of emotion, often within the same piece (classical)? But even granting that, is there something wrong with putting Donna Summer on instead of Mozart when you want to dance the night away? Even if you find Mozart to be better in every other situation?

Comment by Jacob Lalonde

Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:31:19 EDT

Fair enough, but there is something unsatisfactory about the implications of your argument. If we judge based on the success of the artists intent then Disco gets an A+ for 'fun' - fine - and the same for classical with, say 'emotion'. I want to buy this but I can't, it doesn't seem to ring true, there is something that seems intrinsically more enduring about classical (although I would be at a loss to explain it).