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An Independence Day Open Letter To The “Blame America” Crowd

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To all members of the Angry Left:

Today is Independence Day. Let me just remind you what that is, since you have probably blocked it out and deny all knowledge of it. Today is when we celebrate our forefathers’ victory over King George III’s imperialist Britain in 1776. You see, Independence Day — or to put it in more common parlance, the 4th of July — comes but only once a year. Like Christmas. It’s only 24 hours. Surely you can deal with that.

On this day, when the flags fly high and the fireworks burst forth in the colors red, white and blue, and symphony orchestras all across the land perform stirring renditions of “The Star Spangled Banner,” I ask only one thing of you. Take a break from your seething indignity and anger toward the country that educated you, fed you, and allowed you unsurpassed freedoms to be and think as you like. Ask yourself what you love about America — if anything — and maybe, even if for only one day, you will feel grateful.

I’m not asking you to carry that feeling of gratitude into tomorrow or any other day of the year. I know that’s asking too much of you. At midnight, you can go back to wishing you were Canadian – dreaming of six-month long waiting lists for vital heart surgery and your taxes contributing to the seal fur trade. Surely for a 24-hour span of time, you can relax and do the following:

Think about how American intervention liberated Europe from the horrors of totalitarianism, in the forms of fascism and then communism.

Ponder how America has served as a beacon of opportunity worldwide, about Cubans who risk their lives in rickety boats to cross 90 miles of treacherous water for the chance of having a life worth living. Consider how America leads the world in technological advances, making it possible for you to spread your anti-American frustrations on blogs all across the World Wide Web.

Consider freedom of speech and the right to vote. Show some regard to the way in which immigrants worldwide have integrated, assimilated and coalesced into this great “melting pot,” and of “E. Pluribus Unum.” You can dare to dream about an America you might just feel proud of.

Stop thinking about Haditha and how much you “support the troops” yet are willing to believe every negative piece of news you hear about them, judging them guilty before proven innocent. Stop thinking about Guatanamo Bay and how you would love to set every poor terrorist currently locked up there free to walk the streets and kill Americans. Cease thinking about 9/11 and how America asked for it and deserved it. Stop absorbing everything the media, which only cares about its own agenda – which is also your agenda – throws at you. Fly an American flag rather than burning it.

For one day. Just one day. Can you do it?

Can you be a patriot for just one day?

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About Nightdragon

  • http://www.educateddoubt.com lori

    Nice to see that what passes for political commentary on BC still falls under hyperbolic bullshit.

    Happy 4th, indeed.

  • Clavos

    Uuummm, Mark:

    I believe it was King George III,, no?

  • http://jpsgoddamnblog.blogspot.com JP
  • MCH

    Well, although I’m not much of a flag-waver, I am thankful for our independence and grateful for those who sacrificed to achieve and maintain it.

    Oh…and I’m still opposed the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

  • Clavos

    Thanks, Christopher…my goof actually made everything following it print in italics, right?

    Sorry–I didn’t preview first.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I’m afraid you made an error in your very first paragraph. The angry left no longer acknowledges the existence of ‘founding fathers’ and prefers to refer to them as ‘founding persons’. Please be sensitive and keep that in mind. Betsy Ross thanks you.

    Dave

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Nice to see that what passes for political commentary on BC still falls under hyperbolic bullshit.

    I don’t think this can actually be classed as political commentary. It’s more on the nature of a topical rant since it’s not actually commenting on specific political issues.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    and again we see someone from the angry , ad hominem spewing, stereotyping, AM radio host following, GOP type confusing and conflating the difference between love of Country and dissent with an Adminstration

    how about for once, we set aside the bullshit partisan Agenda and celebrate the fact that ALL of us residing in this country are part of the same Nation?

    how about we all Recognize the great things this Nation has done, the Ideals it stands for and represents?

    how abotu we also take a moment to remember and Recognize all the things this Nation has done wrong as well, and take Responsibility for that to the point where we, as a People, devote ourselves to correcting these Mistakes as best as is possible?

    how about we also take a Moment to remember that those in our Government are supposed to Represent We the People and the Ideals laid out in our Declaration and Constitution…and to hold those Representatives responsible to those Laws and Ideals

    how about we set aside, just for the day, the partisan bullshit which artificially divides U.S. and look at the larger things which unite U.S. ?

    silly of me, i know..

    but i can Dream, can’t i?

    Excelsior?

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Mark, it’s a shame you didn’t try to tackle Dr. P’s topic “America: Evil Empire or Benevolent Ruler”.

    Given that you live overseas, but not necessarily in the line of fire of American foreign policy (like me), your thoughts would have had an interesting perspective.

  • Susette Horspool

    How about if we also feel gratitude to the generous Natives of this land that fed us, fought with us, and showed us how it worked? They gave us tips on how to govern and have served in our military for years, even when we were parcing up their land and the agreements we made to boot. (They fought back when we took too much.) We left them with the worst environments, then looted what we kept, so now all the environments are equal. But being Americans, all of us, we have the freedom to make our land healthy again (as long as we don’t depend on this current administration to help). Let’s celebrate the team that we have the freedom to be.

  • Bliffle

    “I’m afraid you made an error in your very first paragraph. The angry left no longer acknowledges the existence of ‘founding fathers’ and prefers to refer to them as ‘founding persons’. Please be sensitive and keep that in mind. Betsy Ross thanks you.”

    Actually, I think modern usage is simply “The Founders”. This renders the appelation free of good/bad implications about ones father, which are spurious.

  • RogerMDillon

    Dear member of the Angry Right,

    This notion that the left doesn’t love anything about America is a pathetic cliche. On a day that is a celebration of America, couldn’t you have taken a break from continuing to divide? How about you go 24 hours without spreading your partisan ignorance and take off your red, white and blue-colored glasses?

    “the 4th of July — comes but only once a year”

    Thanks for that amazing insight.

    Since you are in London maybe you didn’t get the news, but it’s going to tough selling your rah-rah of the troops considering discharged soldier Steven Green is all over the news due to his being charged with raping and murdering a teenage Iraqi girl. Other soldiers were involved in the murder and cover-up of her family and are sure to be charged shortly.

    “Stop thinking about Guatanamo Bay and how you would love to set every poor terrorist currently locked up there free to walk the streets and kill Americans.”

    We’ll skip the part about your contradiction in “judging them guilty before proven innocent” and go straight to suggetsing that maybe you should start thinking why so many “terrorists” are being released from there. If you know something our government doesn’t, please pass on the pertinent information.

    Being a patriot doesn’t mean passively sitting around pondering. It’s about actively engaging the powers that be.

  • Clavos

    Founding Fathers works fine for me-they were all guys (except for Mrs. Betsy, of course).

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Susette, I think you’ve confused the 4th of July with Thanksgiving. That one’s in November.

    Since you are in London maybe you didn’t get the news, but it’s going to tough selling your rah-rah of the troops considering discharged soldier Steven Green is all over the news due to his being charged with raping and murdering a teenage Iraqi girl. Other soldiers were involved in the murder and cover-up of her family and are sure to be charged shortly.

    Do you really not get it, Roger. You’re writing here about Green being prosecuted along with his accomplices – likely with the death penalty at the end of it all. If America were the nightmare which the angry left makes it out to be Green would have gotten away with it and everything would have been hushed up, but that’s not the way we do things in the very rare case that one of our soldiers commits a crime. That principle of responsiiblity is the essence of the America we celebrate on July 4th.

    Dave

  • Erik

    good straw man.

  • Bliffle

    Soldier Green will be dealt with by US Justice, and one expects that the penalty will be severe. Will the muslim terrorists who cut the throats of westerners for the amusement of their video viewers be treated severely by the famous muslim shariah law? If the Israeli soldier is murdered by the palestinian hamas killers will they be brought to court in ‘palestine’? I doubt it. Each person must decide which system he prefers.

  • katrina
  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    Clearly the Angry Right cannot take a one-day break from blaming America. The screed Mr. Manning has penned above is a case in point.

    The “Angry Left” he hates is also part of America, but he cannot take even one day off from proclaiming his hatred and disgust at the way they choose to exercise their freedoms as Americans.

    It takes a special kind of cleverness to fail your own challenge in the same breath where you lay it down.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Bliffle, thank you for comment no. 16. More truth people need to hear.

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com/ Ray Ellis

    Thank you, Mr. Manning– you can’t buy this material. You’ve given me more fodder than I could possibly have dreamed for an upcoming article.
    But since this is Independence Day, and since I swore I wouldn’t be political today (unlike you), and since I’m not an Anglophile expatriate taking cheap shots from abroad, and since I’m enjoying classic Willie Nelson right now, I’ll just wish you a happy Fourth. Shame you’ll miss the fireworks.

  • dsm

    Ask the so called president to read the constitution. Or someone read it to him.

    And stop the Straussian PNAC neocons from their world dominance plans.

    FAA had 51 pre-warnings for 9/11. The president got a lot of warnings from people like Richard Clarke and even Clinton. The pentagon has had trainings where both the Pentagon and the WTC were hit by aircraft. Atleast 11 countries warned about the attacks, Israel even named 4 of the alleged hijackers. Yet we are to believe that that 9/11 was a failure of imagination and that no one could have foreseen the attacks. One of the biggest scams in recent history.

    The really interesting question is why the planes were not shot down. And why people who still continue to support PNAC even though these people benefitted more than anyone else from the attacks.
    Remember the needed “new Pearl Harbor”?

    Want wars that continue for decades? Keep voting for the neocons who are not in anyway conservatives. Government secrecy is record high, the population is spied on, Halliburton builds concentration camps, superhigh deficits, recordhigh oilprices (with oilmen in power. Go figure), possible election fraud, nonsense patriot act, civil liberties in danger, president who bypasses laws, torture, gitmo (with most of them captured for money by warlord)…

    Real patriots, conservatives, liberals, greens EVERYONE should unite against the neocons. The country is in a constitutional crises for christ sake! Forget all itty bitty differences, it’s time to go back to the roots. Don’t let irrational fear control your decisions. They are using fear as a tool to get whatever they want.

    cooperativeresearch.org is your friend.

  • Lumpy

    Nice to see that katrina and dsm are keeping irrational paranoia alive on the 4th. More and more it seems to characterize America or at least a rat-brained sectionof the population.

    Get a clue. The power of the neocons is fading as they turn on each other like mad dogs. Al Qaeda really did destroy the WTC. And there is no Santa Claus. But by all means keep flogging the craziness. It’s your god-given right as Americsns.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Clavos, you are right, it was King George III. I accept my mistake and regret the error.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    The neocons do have their faults, this is true. I am not, and have never pretended to be, a neocon. The neocons may advocate a tough national defense and an aggressive foreign policy – I agree with that, but I do think we should consider being a bit more isolationist. Iraq should be the last of our guns-and-butter type interventionism. But the neocons are domestically liberal. I agree with the paleocons more on domestic issues.

  • Guppusmaximus

    “Consider how America leads the world in technological advances”

    Hey Mark, I totally agree with your article and I applaud your patriotism but I do believe Japan leads the way[in technological advances]especially in computers.

  • Clavos

    I’ve read that while Japan and other Asian nations handle the bulk of technology manufacturing, the stuff is still developed more here than there.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Dead on, Clavos. The Japanese in particular are very concerned about the fact that they don’t produce new ideas, to the extent of going to great lengths to steal our ideas and infringe our patents.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    i think you will find a much larger incidence of intellectual property theft coming from China than Japan…

    as far as i am Aware, they win in total over the rest of the world, stealing from every source they can

    but , they do have “most favored nation” status…

    makes…me….want….to…vomit….blood…and toenails

    Excelsior?

  • Clavos

    Gonzo, You’ve got to get a better diet!!

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    “how abotu [sic] we also take a moment to remember and Recognize all the things this Nation has done wrong”

    Sure, let’s celebrate our nation’s birthday with some self-flagellation! How about every straight, white, Christian male lights off a Roman Candle in his ass, in penance for shit that happened 50 or 100 or 200 years ago?

    Gawd help us all…

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Well said, RJ.

    And gonzo, it doesn’t matter who’s stealing our intellectual property – China steals from everyone – the point is that we come up with the ideas and the rest of the world comes up with the cheap ways to manufacture them. Whether China leads now over Japan is kind of irrelevant. Both of them plus S. Korea are all ‘most favored nations’.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    RJ…i guess it bypasses yer synapses that we only Learn from understanding our Mistakes?

    silly me..i tend to be Thankful for all that has gone Well, remember those who have Fallen, and especiallym honestly looked at what i’ve fucked up so that i never fuck up the same way again as well as to see what can be Learned from said fuck up…

    that Idea may be alien to ya , RJ…but it wasn’t alien to the Founders

    they carefully looked over how every other government system fucked up, and tossed out all the bad they could and then tried to put safeguards against future fuck ups into the system

    but THAT point missed you as well, i guess

    so..have another beer with your self righteous crowing, try not to dislocate your arm from patting yourself on the back for shit you have had nothing to do with, and then light that roman candle…i’ll lend ya my zippo

    cuz it’s always fun ta watch the small minded fly via gunpowder

    snf Dave…it ALWAYS matters who steals, as well as what they steal…this way ya know who to shoot, rather than firing haphazardly and hitting 70 year old lawyers wearing safety orange in the face…

    but i digress

    Excelsior?

  • Dean

    Is our generation leaving the country in a better or worse condition?

    That is the relevant question.

    “When America ceases to be good..she will cease to be great”.
    — Alexis d’Toqueville

  • RogerMDillon

    No, you are the one who doesn’t get it, Dave. I found it ironic that the author writes about negative news regarding the troops on the day after the most negative charge against any soldier in Iraq has happened.

    Anything else you took away from the comment was your own projection.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    RJ, leave it to you to come up with perhaps the best retort on this entire thread! Classic.

    OK, Japan leads the way technologically, but I was thinking of Silicon Valley when I wrote about us leading the way. Plus I feel there’s so much as-yet-untapped brainpower. If only we could cut out the politically correct, “feel good about yourself” factor from American public education, telling kids that a wrong answer is a wrong answer instead (like in those nasty good ol’ days), then think about how much better we could be. I think we need more Simon Cowells as teachers.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    I would like to add that after the bit about “flying rather than burning the flag,” I’d written: “Turn off the Ditzy Twits … er, Dixie Chicks.” But that was edited from the piece.

    Mr. Schannon or Mr. Nalle, if you edit that here, please give me a reason why. Was I stirring the pot too much? After all, they are the darlings of the Blame America crowd, and I feel that was relevant to my piece.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Dave, my apologies. Comment no. 6 was pretty damn good too. You share the comedy award with RJ.

  • Joey

    “and again we see someone from the angry , ad hominem spewing, stereotyping, AM radio host following, GOP type confusing and conflating the difference between love of Country and dissent with an Adminstration” — Gonzo Marx

    With a little wordsmithing this could be crafted into the lyrics for a Croce-esque policital ditty. Can I have it?

  • http://bryanmckay.com/blog Bryan McKay

    After all, they are the darlings of the Blame America crowd […].

    That’s it, Mark. I’ll stomach all you have to say about liberals, but I can’t stomach being accused of liking the Dixie Chicks!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    gonzo – to your comment #32…yeah, it’s good to remember your fuck ups…we all should…but on your birthday? I’d rather look back over the last year and try to find something good I’ve done…then to look back and sulk over all the stupid shit I did…there’s plenty of time for that AFTER my birthday has passed!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    Andy, i think it’s always important to do BOTH…

    without dark to offset and define it, how do you know the Light?

    as i said above, a true and honest View takes it all in, and thus is more complete and more Informative than just looking at the pretty stuff…

    some may just like to look at the retty frosting and all those decorations on a cake…but you don’t know shit about it until you carve off a hunk and take a bite…do ya?

    Joey….have at it, just list me on the credits

    and one last time for a certain ex-patriate who appears to not comprehend…

    there is a HUGE difference between Dissent with an Administration and it’s Policy and shit like “blame america” or “hating the country”

    some jackasses like to break out phrases like that to dehumanize the people they want to stereotype and scapegoat…but it is really fuckinig difficult to find a SINGLE instance of anyone actually “blaming america” or “hating america” , much less a sizable portion of the nation…

    i’ll say it slowly for those in the cheap seats…

    there….is…a…difference…between… disagreeing….with….an…Administration…or…
    a….policy….and…”hate”…or….”blame”… for… a …..Nation

    got it?

    now, tattoo it backwards on your forehead so you can read it in the mirror every morning

    oh yes..and shut off the radio and Faux news…

    they are hurting you

    Excelsior?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    maybe so gonzo, but next month around this time…I’ll only be thinking about the good stuff for the last year…I’ll save August 3rd for all the rest of it!

  • Guppusmaximus

    So, because I can see that the Japanese do actually come up with alot of their own technology then I must favor the communist fuck ups as well?
    Dave, I think you’re mistaken… China is a source of cheap labor and Japan has re-egineered concepts when it was said that it couldn’t be done!
    Mark, I thought about that after I posted my comment because I do believe that we design quite a bit especially in Silicon Valley but I also have to think of the company that was integral to the whole computer movement. NEC.

    It’s one thing to come up with ideas, it’s another to implement them and without the japanese we wouldn’t have had the fortune to see alot of those ideas come to fruition.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    Oh, for the love of God. Neither this article, nor any comment attached thereto, does well to represent America on its birthday. You all, regardless of your political beliefs, make America look like a nation of schmucks.

    Mark Edward Manning, clever though your tactic is–engaging partisan bickering on the Fourth of July to tell the American Left not to engage in partisan bickering on the Fourth of July, then sitting back and watching the comments immediately dissolve into partisan bickering–it’s neither honest nor becoming. Shame on you. You’re no less guilty than the people you’re accusing and more guilty than some of them.

    And the commenters–well, shit. The Gonzos and the RogerMDillons match the Nalles and the RJs in their desperation to turn the 4th of July into a big political lesson for the other side. It’s insulting to the intellect to hear, essentially, “Why can’t you stop taking sides for today and instead come completely over to our side?” Guess what, folks? Putting politics aside means that both of you meet in the middle, not that you insist that your political pole has a monopoly on patriotism and you’ll not only by God stay there, but demand that the other political pole bend all the way over to you.

    Of course, not all of you are trying to be didactic about the Fourth of July. Some of you are just using the thread as another opportunity to take potshots at each other. Those are the most honest people on here–in that they’re not pretending to “elevate” themselves for the sake of being patriotic–but they’re acting despicable nonetheless.

    I spent my Fourth of July with my computer off, thinking how much fun it would be to NOT deal with wingnuts on either the right or the left, or read ham-fisted political arguments (even the ones in the center), but instead just appreciate a Washington Fourth, complete with watching Fireworks from the top of Meridian Hill.

  • Guppusmaximus

    *BTW* Does China still manufacture “our” American Flags??

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    and as far as your comment about not being able to find many people that blame America…I can think of three or four names right off the top of my head…Churchill…Garafalo…Franken…Sheehan…Murtha! The problem with these folks is someone gave them a mic!
    There are plenty…so let’s not pretend like there ain’t!

    Yeah, there’s just as many idiots on the other side…but let’s not pretend like there isn’t a blame America crowd in our own country!

    Perfect example in these comments here…the way I read them…let’s take comment #12…we can’t rah rah the troops because 4 guys may or may not have raped a woman and murdered her family…of course, it’s in the news, so it’s fucking true…just like Haditha! I say fuck the guy who wrote that comment just for writing it! There are 600,000 people in the U.S. Military…so let’s tar them all with that broad brush there RDM! Fucking bunch of bullshit is all it is!

  • JustOneMan

    Mark…good job..perfect reading for the 4th of July…Ironically all of those who deny the existence of a “the blame America” crowd of the looney left are here posting in full force….

    The reason is that they were all disapointed that Korea wasnt successful in reaching American soil with a war head!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    ok..let’s take a second here

    by the “reasoning” being used..that means that in the 90’s …most all of those ranting as well as Fox and the AM dittohead types all hated America whyen they were dissing slick Willie and his policies…

    do i have that correct?

    goose…meet gander..

    my whole point is that one can disageree or even dislike an Administration and it’s policies, that does NOT equate to “hating america”

    far better if folks would learn the difference

    Excelsior?

  • Bliffle

    “The reason is that they were all disapointed that Korea wasnt successful in reaching American soil with a war head!”

    I think this illustrates the bankruptcy of JOMs ideas.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    would like to add that after the bit about “flying rather than burning the flag,” I’d written: “Turn off the Ditzy Twits … er, Dixie Chicks.” But that was edited from the piece.

    Mr. Schannon or Mr. Nalle, if you edit that here, please give me a reason why. Was I stirring the pot too much? After all, they are the darlings of the Blame America crowd, and I feel that was relevant to my piece.

    I can’t imagine either Mark or I ever editing something like that out of a piece like this. There’s just no reason to remove it. Sometimes other editors do publish things int he politics section and their criteria may be different or they may edit with a somewhat heavier hand. If you want it put back in, email me the paragraph as it was and I’ll see what I can do.

    Dave

  • Nancy

    I’m a day late, but I’m grateful every day for my freedoms as well as my country. What the Angry Right (& some on the Left) don’t seem to understand is that we can love our country, and NOT love those leaders who lie, distort, and lead by misrule, misrepresentation, & division. G.W. Bush is NOT the personification and/or embodiment of America, and nobody owes him a jot of loyalty or affection: he’s an elected (possibly) flunky who ignores the fact that he’s supposed to serve, not rule. To despise him is not to be disloyal to America or The Troops whose blood he wastes.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    gonzo – you know I love you man…but you’re blowing a little smoke up our collective asses here…how about just a couple of examples…

    “Our country is founded on a sham: our forefathers were slave-owning rich white guys who wanted it their way. So when I see the American flag, I go, ‘Oh my God, you’re insulting me.’ That you can have a gay parade on Christopher Street in New York, with naked men and women on a float cheering, ‘We’re here, we’re queer!’ — that’s what makes my heart swell. Not the flag, but a gay naked man or woman burning the flag. I get choked up with pride.”

    Janeane Garofalo

    and then it became ‘U.S. out of the Persian Gulf.’ I agreed with every one of those, but ultimately there’s only one way that any of them will be possible and that is: US out of North America, U.S. off the planet, and take Canada with you when you go!”

    Ward Churchill

    These are the people you seem to be defending…and these are the people that the left march out on national TV to spew their hate…

    find me any comment from the right that slams the country and not a political party or a particular person…that’s the difference here…

    slamming a political party or parties is one thing…but to say the flag of your country offends you…well…that offends me! And I never here it from the center or the right…only from the left.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    Andy..no worries…

    but you seem to be thinking i am “defending” people..nope

    i am “defending” folks Right to say what they want

    iam delineating the difference between dissent against an Admionistration and it’s policies and “hating America”…which i determine is what is being conflated in this Article

    the Garrafalo quote is an example of dissent, American style…and shows Love for the Country, but distaste for parts of our HIstory and policies…

    i won’t touch Ward Churchill, cuz he is just a nutbar and should be treated as such…and is in NO way representative of our Nation…just as Terry Nichols or the Unabomber were not representative of the GOP types..much less any faction in our Nation

    so spare me the fake hurt, and actually READ what’s typed…i know you can see the difference

    it especially galled me to read this tripe on the 4th…and if you re-read my comment #8..i thin kyou will understand my position that much better

    hope yer holiday went well

    Excelsior?

  • http://murasaki.blog-city.com Purple Tigress

    Gee…I think the Europeans had a little bit to do with the defeat of communism and it seems that the fall of the Berlin wall came as a complete surprise to Americans.

    Without protest, many of us would not have freedoms that the Founding Fathers would have denied. As for that integration into a great melting pot…you write as if people weren’t forced into ghettoes and as if burning crosses and other forms of hate crimes are something from the distant past.

    Some of those people who are critical of America do not actually belong to the angry left. They might even belong to the right or be non-partisan.

    Without that type of criticism, there would be no change. Remembering the people being detained without the protection of the Constitution or the Geneva Convention on a day of independence is really what independence is about, isn’t it?

    My older relatives spent a few Independence Days behind barbed wire and I’m sure they understood the irony and people like them did protest so that it would not happen again.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    fake hurt? Me? Well, I never!!!

    I read the Garafalo quote differently…but that’s ok…we are allowed to agree to disagree.

    I decided I wasn’t gonna read any of this political stuff and went to the movies yesterday…so I could hear Perry White say….”Does he (Superman)still stand for Truth, Justice and…that other stuff?”

    Even Superman has to be poitically correct these days!

  • Lumpy

    The garofolo quote seems just fine but while churchill may be a ‘nutber’ he is anti-america not just anti bush and he is someone a lot of people on the left have expressed support and agreement with.

    Frankly it is gonzo who is confusing the issue by suggesting that nichols or macveigh represent the GOP in any way snd that opposing the left wing haters is the same as supporting or defending bush. He’s just dead wrong.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    now Lumpy…what i said was that Nichols and McVeigh do NOT represent the GOP, just as Ward Churchill does NOT represent the Dems

    that simple enuff fer ya?

    what i am talking about is the mistake of taking isolated nutbars, and their stupid statements, and then painting huge sections of the American population with extrapolations from that false analogy

    such as the original Article

    to be as clear as possible…i do not like it when ANYONE from EITHER “side” or “gang” makes broad brush statements about their opponents…

    it trivializes the discussion, distracts from the points at hand, and is just bullshit propaganda “big lie” shyte that we should, as a People, be above

    hope that helps explain

    Excelsior?

  • http://catherinejames.blogspot.com/ cat

    Mark,

    Just out of curiousity, why is a non-flag burning “patriot” like yourself living in a foriegn country? I would think someone so loyal as you would be among the last to jump ship… :)

  • RogerMDillon

    “let’s take comment #12…we can’t rah rah the troops because 4 guys may or may not have raped a woman and murdered her family”

    Let me take it step by step, so even you understand it, Andy. No one said you can’t cheer on the troops. The author was specifically castigating the Angry Left for believing all the negative news about the troops. Do you fall under that classification? I pointed out it was going to be a tough sell to those people that he was addressing because on the day before a very heinous charge was made against a soldier. Nowhere did I mention he was guilty, nowhere did I blame the entire military, and nowhere did I blame America, but hey, fuck me because you have poor reading comprehension.

    mjw, I responded to what I read in the article. I didn’t ask anyone to come over to my side. please show me where on BC someone on the left wrote an article critical of the right and I’ll respond to that as well.

  • JustOneMan

    Bliffle 49 – gee profound remarks….truly inspiring and motivational for all on the left …yaaawnnnnn….

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    “there is a HUGE difference between Dissent with an Administration and it’s Policy and shit like “blame america” or “hating the country”

    Well, I’ll be damned if liberals ever bother to point out this difference except when they’re so stunned to find out that others think they’re unpatriotic.

    So tell me, Gonzo, what do you love about America?

    (Gonzo: “Ummm … ummm … *scratches chin* … well, let’s see, ummm …”)

    JustOneMan, re comment no. 47: I totally agree. North Korea will attack American soil and the Lefties will say, “well, we deserved it!”

    Just as they think we deserve to lose in Afghanistan and Iraq. Just as they think we deserved 9/11.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Re no. 58 by cat:

    I never wanted to leave the U.S. I married a Brit and decided to move here as it would be simpler for her; she stood more to lose than I did by moving. So I had to make a life with her over here.

    It’s not how I wanted it, but it’s what I did – it was for love’s sake, it had nothing at all to do with politics. Despite seven years in London, and counting, I remain thoroughly American at heart and always will.

  • http://www.gweissestate.com/blog/gweiss Gina Weiss

    how about we also take a Moment to remember that those in our Government are supposed to Represent We the People and the Ideals laid out in our Declaration and Constitution…and to hold those Representatives responsible to those Laws and Ideals

    Yes, how about we remember our Declaration of Independence: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

    Can you be a patriot for just one day?

    I submit that those who keep constant watch on our servant government ARE the patriots, and NOT ungrateful wretches as you seem to infer, Mark. As gonzo has pointed out more than once – there IS a difference between love of Country and dissent with an Adminstration.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    there IS a difference between love of Country and dissent with an Adminstration.

    So you people keep saying, but I have yet to hear one good word about America come out of your mouths. Not one. It seems you people are the ones linking Bush to America, not vice versa.

    Face it, Gina, even if we had the hippiest-dippiest president and administration the U.S. has ever seen, spending defense money on sex education programs and apologizing for the terrorists that actually wish us harm, you’d still be saying to yourself and others across the world – “well, you know, that’s just the president. Most Americans aren’t like that, they’re ignorant, warmongering rabble-rousers. Remember, they voted for Bush!

  • Bliffle

    Manning: “JustOneMan, re comment no. 47: I totally agree. North Korea will attack American soil and the Lefties will say, “well, we deserved it!””

    Neither Manning nor JOM are conservatives, just liberal-bashers.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    just a quickie fer Mark, i’ll continue it later..

    what do i love about America?

    i love it enough to have volunteered for military service, to uphold and defend the Ameriocan Covenant of the Constitution…

    i love it because we are a nation formed under the Rule of Law, NOT the divine right of Kings, not the military/police power of a dictator

    i love it due to our Ideals and Principles, the very Ethics of a society based on innocent until proven guilty

    i love it for my ability to my own “pursuit of Happiness”, as long as it does not harm nor hinder other’s Rights

    i love it because even if we get something wrong for along time…we can fix it (read:slavery and women’s voting)

    i love it becasue it is our Law that even when i can’t stand the words coming out of someone’s mouth, i willput my Life on the line to defend their Right to say it…and others will do the same for me

    i love it BECASE there IS a difference between dissent against the policies of our Government and loving the Nation we live in

    i love it because our government is of, by, and for the People..and when that is not the case…we can vote the bastards out….or forcibly toss them out…still under our Rule of Law..

    there’s more…

    Excelsior?

  • Nancy

    Here’s from me: I love this country because no matter how bad some people try to make it, no matter how corrupt those at the top are, no matter what problems we have, it’s still the best country in the world – or all those people wouldn’t be trying to sneak in here to make themselves a “better life”, and as Gonzo sez, we (so far) have the mechanics in place to get rid of those who would destroy this nation. It’s a nation strong enough even to put up with bullshit neoconism, fascism, and blind gullibility by the rank & file in our Fearless Leaders on the Hill & in the WH, and still probably be able to survive AS America and all it stands for.

    Interesting thing: I note that those of us who have served in the military seem to be those least afraid of criticizing BushCo. and/or the US, while those who are armchair chickenraptors are the most fervid in rejecting any and all critiques of either, under the mantle of being ‘patriotic’. Huh.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I love this country because you’re not required to explain why you love it.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    66-Well said, Gonzo!!!

  • Clavos

    …and Dave!!

  • Nancy

    Another major thing: where else would you have an election with the viciousness & badwill of the last two, and no group pulls guns & starts shooting up the neighborhoods or polling places because they don’t like the election results, a la Gaza when Hamas won? I mean, I don’t think it even entered anyone’s mind to do such a thing. That’s America.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    That might just be because the side which got pissed about the election is the one with a pathological fear of guns, Nancy.

    dave

  • Nancy

    Anyone who DOESN’T fear guns is insane. I spent several years with a gun as part of my service; I know what they can do. Only fools don’t fear guns – or those waving them around.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    call me a Fool then…i don’t fear guns

    now, the folks holding the weqapon are another thing entirely

    but rest assured, not only have i no fear of the tool, but i have a damn good knowledge in how to use it, as well as the proclivity to if needed…

    not ALL the folks unhappy with the results mentioned would shy away from usage if needed

    a little over 200 years ago, there were another bunch of Liberals that weren’t afraid of that Option either…

    nuff said….

    Excelsior?

  • Nancy

    I’m not afraid to use it; it’s just … it seems to me anyone who doesn’t fear something that has that kind of power – I mean ‘fear’ in the sense of hold it in extreme respect & use it correctly & with caution – is an idiot, IMO. Cars are in the same category. Anyone who drives like they weren’t in charge of a ton of steel is a mindless halfwit. Alas, our roads are clogged with same. Some things should just be viewed with the caution & reserve they deserve, and handled accordingly. Kind of like working with Ebola virus, you know?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    ahhh…definitions..

    Respect…of course…i agree with the car analogy

    but Fear?

    nah…

    that’s a whole ‘nother kettle of fish

    Excelsior?

  • Arch Conservative

    I guess everyone who doesn’t like your post is right Mark.

    There are no America haters on the left. The left consists of nothing but legitimate reasonable dissent. So when someone on the leftis screamign that America is an imperialist nation, a terrorist state, claiming our troops are murderers, saying they hope we are a completely evil and corrupt nation and that we should be attacked again etc etc etc….. well by golly they’re just expressing good ole patriotic american dissent that stems from thier great love of this nation…… and anyone that would use thier own words or actions as evidence to suggest that they hate america is just a Faux news watching religious gop nutbag………

  • Nancy

    Persons of the exemplars you just quoted are not the legit “Left”, anymore than the religious reich are the legit “Right”, and you know it. There are nut cases on either end of the spectrum who represent none of us, but get all the attention because the MSM love a good, brainless, show instead of having to work by listening to actual ideas or arguments. By pasting all Libs as being screaming anti-American, Jane Fonda apologist maniacs, you lose what little credibility you have. How about cutting the hyperbole a tad; surely you don’t need all that much venting room.

  • Alix

    Nancy, can you name a high profile middle of the road lefty who does not blame America, Republicans, people of faith etc. for all it’s woes.

  • Clavos

    Nancy 78:

    Well said. The vast majority of both stripes are somewhere in the middle.

    We (the people/readers/voters) need to not only drill that into the heads of the MSM editors/publishers, but into the politicians'(again, both stripes–or all three or four, etc.) heads as well.

    Bloggers have already started on the MSM.

    What do we do with (or to) the pols to get their attention?

  • TinyT

    To set the record straight, July 4th is the day we celebrate the signing of the Declaration of Independence; the winning of independence took 8 long years of war. Too many conservatives forget the document that declares our rights, one of which is the right to engage in civil public debate. However, facts are stubborn things, and we patriots, who still believe in the Declaration of Independence, will continue to haunt your dream for dominionism, hegemony, and theocracy.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Anyone who DOESN’T fear guns is insane. I spent several years with a gun as part of my service; I know what they can do. Only fools don’t fear guns – or those waving them around.

    There’s nothing to fear in a gun. To fear them is to be ignorant. It takes the gun, a cartridge and a person willing to use it for there to be danger involved. I have zero fear that a gun sitting unloaded on a table will do anything to me ever.

    Dave

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    And gonzo, the only time leftists don’t hate guns is when they are in the hands of the state and they control the state.

    Liberals are another issue alltogether, but good luck finding an actual liberal on the left in America today.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    #84 sez…
    *And gonzo, the only time leftists don’t hate guns is when they are in the hands of the state and they control the state.*

    another ad hominem, broad vbrush, un-provable sterotypical statement with no basis in objective Reality?

    why am i not suprised?

    now, i can agree there is a segment of the population who do not like firearms…just as there is a segment with an unhealthy “love” for firearms…

    it’s just a tool, that should be licensed and regulated , like any other dangerous tool

    but still…just an object

    Excelsior?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Thank you, AC, for no. 77!

    About guns, here’s my two cents. It is neatly summed up like this:

    Gun owner
    Victim
    Select one.

    And, I myself may not have served in the military, but I was damn close to signing up in 2003, when all the Lefties were decrying Iraq. I was going to leave my wife and life in London to serve in the war. My father’s the only one who stopped me. He said, don’t interrupt your life at 33. 23, maybe, but not 33. I honored his request. My father, I feel the need to add, was a U.S. Marine in the mid ’60s.

  • zingzing

    mark, yer a superstar.

    your neat summation is too simple by far, your reason for wanting to go to iraq is silly and your father’s reason for not going to iraq is good, even if “your reason” for not going to iraq is bull. your reason had better be your father’s reason, or else you are just full of it. “i honored his request.” ha! that’s great stuff.

    #77 is crazy-silly. archie, you are what you describe, so i will agree with you there, you bible-thumping, line-toating, fox news as gospel, gop whore. mmm. sure, there are ridiculous leftist radicals. thanks, man, you really elightened the masses with that one. what next? women like chocolate? wow! you have every right to talk about the crazy leftist loons, but don’t think for an instant that you can paint the entire left with your shit-brown buttplug of a brush. then again, you’re the only one left smelling your own shit. stank, ain’t it?

  • fos

    After reading the comments on this thread I must conclude that my friend Michael Savage hit the mark with his new book, Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder. If your from the show me state, that would be Missouri on the left side of the Mississippi River if your map is right side up.

  • dirk

    You said:
    “To all members of the Angry Left:

    Today is Independence Day. Let me just remind you what that is, since you have probably blocked it out and deny all knowledge of it. Today is when we celebrate our forefathers’ victory over King George III’s imperialist Britain in 1776. You see, Independence Day — or to put it in more common parlance, the 4th of July — comes but only once a year. Like Christmas. It’s only 24 hours. Surely you can deal with that.”

    …while Americans were dispossing others of their lands,e.g Natives.Where does that fit in with the glourious history of America,you know freedom and equality for all….

    you said;” Think about how American intervention liberated Europe from the horrors of totalitarianism, in the forms of fascism and then communism.”

    …actually it was the Russians who beat the Nazi’s,over 75% of all German forces were arayed against the USSR.And before you bring up the lend-lease,no more than 5% of weapons and resources needed and used by the USSR came from lend-lease.This is not to say US help was not appreciated,or did not make a difference,but it is a bit of a stretch to say the US “saved” Europe.The USSR was vital in the defeat of Germany,the people of the USSR and other parts of Europe(including some Germans) were heroic in defeating the Nazi’s.

    “Communism” (1) in Europe fell at the hands and,due to the will of the citizens of those countries,that were “communist”.They played the desisive role,it was their will not the self-serving machinations of US policies in the region.

    Then there are all the democracies over-thrown by the “US democracy” Guatamala,Iran,Chile…this from the country always harping about the sanctity of democracy,and the will of the people….(even if you disagree with their choice)

    Don’t get me wrong I do not dislike America or Americans I dislike some of America’s(the government’s) double standards.

    Indeed ever time I celebrate May day,I am celebrating the inherent goodness of ordinary American,the democratic spirit of ordinary Americans(and ordinary people in general).I am remembering their struggle for real democracy,and the fight for the eight-hour day etc…Americans who payed the ultimate price,their life in the struggle for democracy and freedom.Remember who shot them down???

    My faith lay still with the American people(indeed all ordinary peoples the world over),it will be ordinary Americans who take back their freedom,from those that are motivated by self,and selish gain over the well being of their own people.

    Sincerly Dirk Buchholz

    p.s Wars such as in Iraq are the anti-thesis of democracy,in the end it will be the people of Iraq who have to and will find their way.They will decide how their country develops.I fail to see how anything good can come from invasion and war.War is about death and suffering,a suffering that will linger in the collective memories of Iraqi’s long after the “defenders” of “freedom and democracy” have gone home.

    (1) I use quotes around Communism,because Communism as stated by Marx is the absences of a State.A state by its very nature and existants means someone is oppressed….

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Wow Dirk, you celebrate May Day? You unrepentant old red, you. So quaint.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    Mark in #85 sez…
    *And, I myself may not have served in the military, but I was damn close to signing up in 2003, when all the Lefties were decrying Iraq.*

    then excuses himself form signing up at 33 due to something his father had said…

    fair enough…and i woudl have taken it at face value…

    then i did the math

    that woudl have made you of prime age for Gulf War 1 when you chose NOT to serve…

    so please, spare those vets who had the balls to actually stand up and serve their Nation from EVER fucking having the unmitigated gall to open yer fucking pie hole on the subject again]

    you also have your right to use of the term “self righteous” fucking revoked, you hypocritical armchair sack of bullshit…

    now..after said tirade…i will more than gladly rationally discuss any topic you like as long as you remember the baseline Rules i just mentioned that derive directly from what has come from your own keyboard

    Excelsior?

  • RogerMDillon

    Manning: “Ummm … ummm … *scratches chin* … well, let’s see, ummm …”

  • fos

    Like I just said, LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER. For the purpose of political correctness maybe instead of MENTAL DISORDER, disease challenged would be appropriate. So whats your thoughts on this?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    my thought is that you should stop sucking Savage’s dick, come out of the closet, and be proud of who you are….

    well, you asked…

    Excelsior?

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    My thought on this is that you need to stick to one name, sr…

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Gonzo, you will not tell me a fucking thing, vet or not. Frankly, if you serve your country, you should have the werewithal to maintain faith in it. You, obviously, have not.

    I admired Kerry for his service, but that sure as hell didn’t mean I agreed with him or voted for him.

    By the way, how’d you feel about Clinton – a hero of yours, I’m guessing? Dodged the draft, did everything in his power to weaken our military and merge it with the U.N.? Did this offend your vet sensibilities in any way?

  • Clavos

    I admired Kerry for his service

    I don’t. The bastard cheated and lied his way through, and when he got home he publicly maligned all the rest of us.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    now, you do get to ask me what ya like…but yer assumptions are way off

    as i stated, yer Rights to play aggreived or self righteous in affaris military are fucking revoked by your own words

    slick Willie was no hero of mine in any manner…nice try, but again, yer fucking wrong

    and you have NO standing to talk about “mainitaining faith”… again, based on your own cowardly and hypocritical admissions earlier

    might i once again point out to your very obtuse sensibilities that there is a huge fucking difference between love of one’s Country, and dissent again an Administration…government , or it’s policies?

    so try harder, hypocrite

    my Faith is unshaken..why? becuase dissent is alive and well, open discourse and disagreement is not only allowed, but fucking Required

    oh yes..and i still live in the U.S.

    your turn

    Excelsior?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Actually, why the fuck did you even serve this imperialist country in the first place, Gonzo? If you disagree with war so damn much, why take part in its machinery?

    Yes, I could have served in the first Gulf War and didn’t. I wasn’t political back then. If I’d had a mind for politics, then I might very well have joined up.

    And I don’t know how you do your duty and, more than 10 years later, bitch about the country, giving comfort to all the European cognoscenti and terrorism-apologists everywhere. You make a habit of heckling every conservative patriot who dares to post.

    It seems to me that you’re the one who’s hypocritical, my friend. Or did Agent Orange warp your brain?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    The fact is, Gonzo, you can become President of the country without ever having served in the military. So that says nothing about one’s patriotism or lack of it. My father’s opinion meant a lot to me and I knew he’d be disappointed if I hadn’t listened to him.

    As for your cheap shot, “oh yes, I still live in the U.S.,” I refer you to comment number Sixty-fucking-two, jackass.

  • http://jpsgoddamnblog.blogspot.com JP

    Fos, your attitude of “LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER” is pathetic. Wouldn’t an accusation of the converse, “CONSERVATISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER..” offend you greatly? Do you really believe that only one of the positions is valid for a “mentally healthy” American?

    If so, you’re suffering from logic deficiency.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    ok..now we get to have Fun

    where have i said i disagree with a justified War, legally declared against a clear and present Danger?

    you won’t find it…therefore your charge of hypocrisy is null and void…

    try harder

    next…it’s more than 20 years later for me, i bitch about an Administration and it’s policies…pointing out where i disagree, and offering my Viewpoint

    which is not only my Right, but my civic Responsibility as a citizen…nothing to do with country, everything to do with the government…the two are NOT the same, you can try and “frame” it any way ya like…but yer fucking wrong…so get your terminology straight, and work on those vocabulary skills as i try and work on my dyslexic spelling…

    now..please show me a Quote that conforms to your unfounded accusation of “giving comfort to all the European cognoscenti and terrorism-apologists everywhere”

    again..you won’t find it

    as for my heckling…it tends to revolve aroudn either differences of Opinion, pointing out errors in logic or facts, or my favorite..shooting down bullshit hypocrits….like now

    a Patriot is willing to Sacrifice for his country…someone who is truly patriotic does what they can to make it better

    what Sacrifice have you made? at least someone like Nalle earns my Respect for his Paine like efforts to make things better by the deeds of his writings (for the most part)…whereas all you have shown is the same smug and un-earned spewings that you appear to be railing against

    so, you excuse yourself form one Conflict by “not being political” then you excuse yourself for the one you supposedly “believe” in due to being 33?

    this shows the hypocrisy of NOT being willing to Sacrifice “my Life, my Fortune and my sacred Honor” for what you believe in…

    and that places you in the bullshit hypocrite category on the subject

    you are more than welcome to your Opinion, but you are also subject to being called on bullshit

    care to try again?

    Excelsior?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    My sacrifice is telling it like it is and receiving a load of bullshit for it. Not that I mind, it comes with the job. Some things are thankless tasks … like fighting a war on terror.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    again, you mistake my intent..it’s your Tight to live where and how ya choose, my remark about my still living here was nto meant to disparage your choice to live elsewhere…merely to make th epoint that i am in the country i care about by my own choice

    now..if you believe that gettnig heckled for making the remarks you do is some kind of “sacrifice” than might i suggest a visit to a VA ward, to put things in a bit of perspective

    just a Thought

    i’ll also direct you to my previous comment where i do talk about the difference between patriotism and it’s many manifestations and actually being a Patriot…

    big fucking difference

    like actual Sacrifice by choice…that whole “my Life, my Fortune and my sacred Honor” bit…

    there’s no disgrace in choosing NOT to go that far, but such choice gives context to anything you go on to do or say or write afterwards

    that’s called Consequences and personal Responsibility

    i would guess you can look those up sometime

    oh yes, and as for the “war on terror”

    you can’t fight a War against a fucking noun

    and no War had been declared by Congress as per the Constitution adn the War Powers Act

    so again, nice try at the partisan propagandistic “framing”…but total bullshit hyperbole once again

    try harder

    Excelsior?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    correction “Tight” should have been “Right”

    dyslexic stream of consciousness typing gets me once again…

    Excelsior?

  • MCH

    “Yes, I could have served in the first Gulf War and didn’t. I wasn’t political back then. If I’d had a mind for politics, then I might very well have joined up.”
    – Mark Edward Manning

    “I would’ve enlisted for Desert Storm, but by the time I finished boot camp and officer’s school, the war would’ve been over. If I had joined, I would’ve been the captain of a ship.”
    – Dave Nalle

    “I couldn’t fight in Vietnam, because my family physician awarded me a medical deferment for a pilonidal cyst. In other words, I beat the draft thanks to a cyst on my ass.”
    – Rush Limbaugh

  • Clavos

    “I actually did fight in Vietnam-before I didn’t”
    -John Kerry

  • http://www.gweissestate.com/blog/gweiss Gina Weiss

    Face it, Gina, even if we had the hippiest-dippiest president and administration the U.S. has ever seen, spending defense money on sex education programs and apologizing for the terrorists that actually wish us harm, you’d still be saying to yourself and others across the world – “well, you know, that’s just the president. Most Americans aren’t like that, they’re ignorant, warmongering rabble-rousers. Remember, they voted for Bush!”

    Huh??

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Gee, isn’t it funny how all the fucking terrorist ass-kissing liberals are dumping on conservatives who didn’t serve. Let me remind you, you people hate the military, you hate wars, and you think defense spending should go to something more useful like the Saddam Hussein Defense Fund. Showing your hyprocritical colors as always.

    I’ll say it once again, you don’t need military credentials to love the country. And if you did serve, but come back all bitter and twisted, a pawn of the Left, taking every chance you get to trash-talk the U.S. to loads of the great unwashed willing to listen, then you’re of no use anymore. You may as well have not even bothered.

    Sorry, but Gonzo’s whole “I served, I’m the bravest man who ever lived, so I have every right to be a Left-wing rabble-rouser, it’s my Duty to Dissent” argument does not, and never will, wash with me.

    I’d rather fight for this country with words than come back from action with a mind to pick America apart.

  • http://parodieslost.typepad.com mschannon

    MEM,

    Sorry to be late to the party…Been out of town. I echo Dave’s comment #50 on why the Dixie shits were edited out. There’s a comments editor, but that isn’t the kind of thing he’d normally take out. I guess Dave’s looking into it, but it could have just been whoever edited the piece deciding that the Dixie Chips were too nice to be turned on. If so, I’d say that editor exceeded his or her or its perogative.

    BUT…to the point….carrying over from my post on extremism. An analogy. You have a male-type child…a 16 year old teenager (I have to make this up because I’ve never had one of those things called children) who’s doing something really really wrong, like boinking 12 year olds–either boys or girls.

    Aren’t you going to come down on him like a ton of bricks. Take away his pecker privileges for at least a year, get him help, make him wear a chastisty belt? Do something to help him stop being such a schmuck?

    But do you stop loving him? Of course not. When his birthday comes around, do you push him down the stairs so he, she or it breaks its ankle? Heavens to Betsy! No.

    When I was in college and fancied myself a poet, there was this visiting professor who tore every poem I wrote to pieces…it was as if I couldn’t find a useful word anywhere in my rhetoric machine.

    In despair, I went to her and said I was giving up poetry since it was so clear that I had the skills of a Lithuanian. She looked at me and said simply, “If I didn’t think you had so much potential, do you think I’d take all this time to go over every word you write and criticize you?”

    Get over your delusions that those of us who hate Bush (and, by the way, I hated Clinton too) hate America. They’re too different animals altogether. We’re a great nation that has done wonderful things. And we’re a great nation that has made mistake that are beyond comprehension.

    If we deny the mistakes and only wave the flag proudly, over time, the wonderful things will be buried by the continuing mistakes that we’ve never learned from.

    Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and Goldberg, when are you going to make room for differences of opinion without demonizing those who disagree with you? Do you really think you’re making America better by characterizing us the way you do?

    Arghhh….it just makes my blood boil, and I’m always a calm and rational person unlike Gonzo the Patriot.

    In Jameson Veritas

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    you truly just don’t get it , do you..is objective Reality so far removed from your consciousness that yuo will stoop to making up Quotes from someone right here, to refute both the words and the sentiments, in order to continue to spew your twisted and hate filled partisan agenda from axcross an ocean from the land you are talking about?

    set bin Laden in front of me, i’ll pull the fucking trigger myself…or even better, use my bare fuckign hands and take full personal Responsibility

    how’s that for “terrorist ass kissing”?

    and again, i fucking DEFY you to come up with where i have ever said that you needed to serve to love your country…in fact i give an example of someone i know has not served, whom i argue with constantly, but whom i also freely admit is patriotic and loves our Nation

    you just have yer crumpets ina twist cuz i called you out on yer hypocritical bullshit macho “i wanted to join…” bullshit…be a mensch and admit that your politics and patriotism took a back seat to yor fear factor and comfort level…

    you’ll garner a bit more Respect for it, cuz at least that’s honest

    as soon as some elitist bastard starts with “the great unwashed” as you have, you show just how ethically and intellectually bankrupt your position actually is, yer making this far too easy and should probably step away from the keyboard before you suffer further mental trauma

    and again, you are in error..you are NOT “fighting for this country with words” you are being an Apologist for this Administration’s policies and playing partisan spin doctor games, scapegoating, sterotyping and talking out of yer ass about shit you have no fucking clue about

    when you start with shit like…
    *Let me remind you, you people hate the military, you hate wars, and you think defense spending should go to something more useful like the Saddam Hussein Defense Fund.*

    show…yer…fucking…proof….moonbat

    show us all who hates the military, where they have explicitly said so…try and keep it to the folks on BC…

    hating war…yep, anybody who has been in one hates it, but sometimes you do what needs to be done, especially when you hate it…. courage ain’t being without fear, it’s doing what ya have to do when yer scared shitless

    but you wouldn’t know a fucking thing about that, would you?

    and i can only give my own Opinion here, but i think defense spending should go towards…well, Defense…and shoudl be watched like a hawk against corruption (remember Duke Cunningham?) and other excesses…i also think that every dollar spent on Defense should be spent with American companies, using American labor making American products…this is for National Security reasons as well as good economics

    so that’s three for three where yer hate filled has been proven just fucking WRONG…

    again…

    try thinking and discussing rather than bigoted parroting of yer Fox masters and Rovian overlord

    you might begin to approach something resembling humanity

    maybe…

    Excelsior?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Mr. Schannon:

    Since you have treated me with respect and are willing to assume that I have some measure of intellect flickering within my head – which is more than I can say for some people – I will consider your request to tone it down. But only if the people on your side do the same. Deal or no?

    None of this was meant to be directed at you anyway. You’ve always seemed very genuine to me. I have no beef with you at all.

    And as for the “I’ve never had one of those things called children” comment, bravo! Neither have I, nor will I. A wife is enough trouble for me, LOL. :)

    Have a good one.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Gonzo, Gonzo, Gonzo … after a few hours sleep, I’m in a less quarrelsome mood and all I can say is bravo, man. Your latest invective against me had me laughing my head off, in fact. So, thanks for that, duuuude. I needed it.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    well…a Laugh is taken as a Compliment by this Jester

    if it’s accompanied by a bit of Thought , or a new way of looking at something, then my Task is complete and i am content…

    keep in mind , that what you may perceive as me being Funny is actually when i am the most serious, and when i appear to be serious is when i am poking Fun…

    enjoy yer day

    Excelsior?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    I’m dead serious all the time. I have to be.

    enjoy yer day

    Thanks. I will. Right back at’cha.

  • Dave Nalle

    Nice to see that our resident troll has resorted to making up quotes he can’t remember right.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    hurm..which troll, and which quote?

    am curious, cuz i know i’m senile and fuck up…so if i messed up, please Enlighten…

    if it wasn’t me….then i care a bit less…

    no matter, and no worries

    Excelsior?

  • troll

    an MCH #105 reference I believe

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    much Thanks to THE troll…

    makes me feel a bit better, i hate getting shyte wrong, which is why i am so quick to “mea culpa”

    the Price from working out of the Memory Mansion and pecking stream of Consciousness rather than careful research and editing

    but even those that hate hy stuff, tend to get a good Laugh…so i must be doing something satisfactorily…

    i can’t wait for the fireworks over my bin Laden Article ta start….

    heh

    Excelsior?

  • troll

    MEM – please explain what benefits come with your ‘my leaders right or wrong’ type of patriotism – if all were to adopt your attitude would We the People be safer from the bad guys or something – ?

    as for military service – the idea that it is service to Country is one of those delusional abstract niceties for the jingoist propaganda mill…in practical terms it is service to some Leader and his policies

    and as has been pointed out – the Leader is not the Country

    a standing army is a bad idea

    troll

  • Nancy

    What’s the title of your binLaden article, Gonz? I need to go read it. Thanks.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    “CIA Closes bin Laden Department” is the title Nancy

    in today’s politics section

    enjoy

    Excelsior?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    OK, look…I’ve been reading this for a while and not saying anything…I think the thing that bothers me the most…is when I read shit like…there never were any WMD’s and bullshit like that…the whole fucking world was sure he had them…the Kurds were sure he had them…it’s the bullshit like that…everybody hated Hussein…wild bill even bombed him…but to come back years later and try to say that this administration lied about them is straight up bullshit…the same intel guys that are leaking shit to the NYT are the ones that told bush Iraq had them.

    then we have the group that talks shit about the militrary…to lump all the military in with the trash that was working the prison or the asshole that raped and murdered an entire family…it’s shit like that that pisses people off…pisses me off…that makes some of us believe that some of you are the hate America crowd.

    Those folks that say shit like 9/11 was our fault…like those people in the twin towers did anything to piss off the islamists…other than breathe…

    then there are those of you that say…and I’m not pointing any fingers here gonzo…that you slam both sides equally…sorry, I don’t see it…those that slam the right around here NEVER say anything bad about the left…yeah, I said NEVER…if you can dispute it, show me…today, I’m from Missouri.

    then we have the group that says that bush stole the election…give me a fucking break! How many times do we have to count those votes?

    Of course, there’s the chicken hawk crowd…another bullshit argument…like a medal ever made someone a better person…One person in particular that loves to use the chicken hawk argument once told me right here on BC that the people in the military that stay just can’t hack it on the outside…

    and there are people here at BC that say they hate it here…in America…but if you ask them why they stay they get all pissy! That one I don’t get at all…if you really really don’t like a place…why stay?

    Yeah, Bush is an asshole…anybody that takes a vacation in the middle of a war that he starts is an ass…but you know what? They’re all assholes! Like the man said…if you want the job, you ain’t qualified!

  • MCH

    “…One person in particular that loves to use the chicken hawk argument once told me right here on BC that the people in the military that stay just can’t hack it on the outside…”

    Well, that’s not exactly what I wrote, but whatever. I am proud of the fact that I’ve never said anything as bad as the BC chickenhawk who stated, “Max Cleland resembles a gigantic thalidamide baby”…

    …but maybe I’m just partial…

  • Bliffle

    “…I think the thing that bothers me the most…is when I read shit like…there never were any WMD’s and bullshit like that…the whole fucking world was sure he had them…the Kurds were sure he had them…”

    NOT the whole world. Not Hans Blix, not Scott Ritter, and many others. So what the bushies did was personally defame people like that. Blix was told by the admin that they would attack him, not his findings. The Kurds, of course, had a big vested interest in the US invading Iraq, so they lied, not feeling any compunction because Bush 1 let them down after he promised to help.

  • Nancy

    Actually, Gonzo has slammed the left quite a bit. I can’t point you to specifics, because they’re so many & woven thru so many threads he writes on. Ditto other leftie writers. And I myself loathe both sides, & have frequently said so on numerous threads. I’d just as soon hang ‘em all & start over.

    Nobody with half a brain considers those who did bad things at the prison or with this particular girl & her family to be representative of anybody, let alone the whole military. That’s just jihadist BS they use to inflame unthinking fools into allowing themselves to become bombs. I don’t know any Americans who sincerely believe this is representative. Personally, I think there’s a lot more going on with both those people convicted of “abuse” at the prison, and this group of B-Co. accused of murder & rape, than we’re ever likely to find out, and I’m sure there’s quite a bit of subordinates being set up to take the heat for higher-ups, but we’ll never find out, likely, which is a pity. In any group of tens of thousands, you’re going to get some nutcase psychos; can’t be helped, it’s part of the population, any population. Take 10,000 people off the streets of Denver, or DC, or San Francisco, & you’ll come up with about the same proportions of decent citizens to psycho jobs. Same with the military. Only the very lunatic far, far Left thinks ALL militaries are bad. Problem is, the MSM spends most of their time trumpeting only the extremist views of the far left and/or the far right, because that’s what’s sensationalist, and that’s what they think sells. As one of them once said, good news doesn’t sell papers.

    Ref: who served vs who didn’t, I think the objection (as far as I’ve been able to keep track) is that those who have served in various military units at one time or other object to excessively “patriotic” chickenhawking on the part of those whose fannies never left the comfort of their armchairs & who are now busy abusing everyone who doesn’t think like they do. A prime case in point: Smilin’ Dick Cheney, 5-time deferment seeker, and currently head of the warmongering coalition, who doesn’t hesitate to shed blood … as long as it ain’t his. Cheney & his ilk are offensive to just about all right-thinking people, IMO, past military or not. Just like W with his macho shithead “Bring it on” comment. Bring it on, indeed. As if HE would ever be in danger of actually having to be in danger, or answer to his own swaggering braggadoccio. THAT is what’s offensive. At least, it is to me.

    And always bear in mind there are plenty of those in this country and abroad, in whose best interests it is to keep us at each others’ throats by stressing our differences, keep us stirred up against each other, lest we should stop & perhaps take a closer look at what THEY have been doing, and maybe make them answer for it.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    those that slam the right around here NEVER say anything bad about the left

    I do. I particularly slam lefties here on BC; as a lefty, I expect better than I often hear from the left, and when that’s the case I have no problem taking them to task, correcting their facts and pointing out when they’re going overboard.

  • Nancy

    Besides, as MChannon says, lefties tend to know more obnoxious lefties because they hang out with them more. Didn’t know you were a leftie, tho, Mr. West?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    To go back to an old topic…
    it’s just a tool, that should be licensed and regulated , like any other dangerous tool

    Let’s see, my power saw, power drill and hammer are dangerous tools – among the most danerous – and they don’t have to be licensed or regulated. In fact I don’t have ANY tools, including my masonry nail driver which is basically a /22 pistol which require licensing or registration.

    Dave

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    OK, not your exact words…here are your exact words…

    Actually, getting out of the service and off the government titty when my hitch was up, to go out and make a living through my own individual efforts, has been my third proudest accomplishment.

    I think it sounded better the way I put it…but that’s just me.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    and I read that on here all the time…I slam the left…I slam the left…

    Like I said…show me.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    and lines like this…Cheney & his ilk are offensive to just about all right-thinking people

    that’s a bullshit line…so, if people don’t think like you…then they’re not right thinking people? and you said that right after you said that the chicken hawks abuse anyone who doesn’t think like them!

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    The idea that there are ‘right-thinking people’ is inherently offensive and elitist. Who among us has a monopoly on correct thought?

    Dave

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    me!

  • Arch Conservative

    I think ANdy Marsh had it right….. and Nancy was wrong………..

    Gonzo claims to be objective but he rarely if ever says anything bad about the left and if he does it’s short, mild and vague and then on to more detailed, passionate bashing of everything on the right/conservative

    numerous people have noticed this and pointed it out gonzo….so why don’t you just admit that you’re not objective…..you have a clear left leaning bias……

    it is very evident in this post

    you refuse to concede any of the obvious points that mr manning has made about many on the left

    1. maybe you don’t love slick willie but many on the left who do and voted for him have no problem with his lack of service even though he did send our troops into combat bosnia, kosovo…..but they do have a problem with w’s service………HYPOCRITES!

    2. many on the left do view the troops as mentally inferior, kunckle draggers and claim to support them but oppose things such as military spending and the use of our military to defend us under any circumstance

    3. there are others but i’m not going to list them all so you can deny that they’re true in your typical arrogant fashion gonzo

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    to number 128….but you do have to license and register yer car, yes?

    could have something to do with the tools you mention being dangerous to yourself, and not able to harm someone 200 yards away

    or inside the next door neighbors living room

    which both a car, and a firearm, can do

    there is a difference, and room for Discussion

    if it was up to me, any firearm made woudl have it’s ballistic registered, and that woudl transfer to any legal owner…thus makijng law enforcement when it comes to crimes involving firearms that much easier, and keeping those who utilize said firearms legally completely exonerated…

    now…for Andy…you want some Lefty slamming…

    ok…

    Hildabeast…the worst thing that could ever happen to the Dem woudl be for this shark among dolphins to ever get the nomination…this cold hearted bitchasaurus takes her cues, not from Principles or beliefs, but from the bowels of the DLC…who just wanna be the shadow clones of GOP-lite, and have contributed more to the fall of the Dem party than anything since the Civil War..

    under the guidancew of Terry McCauliffe…whose only claim to anything useful was his ability to raise money for Bill, they tossed aside any kind of unifying principle for greed and to fill the coffers of their warchest…this puts them in the pitiful position they are in now

    Kerry…oh boy, a lot fer this one…consistency is not in this man’s vocabulary, and rather than being a heavyweight and bringing his experience to bear…forcing the debate into the deep end of the pool, he continuously tries and fails miserably to “triangulate” and act like normal folks…face it John, yer not normal folks…never have been, and never can be…so don’t be a hypocrite and try and act like one…stand up as if you had a spine and be firm in yer own convictions rather than jellyfish it the way whatever strategist is talking in yer ear tells you too

    the congressional Dems…idiots studying to be morons and failing the course as a whole…why do i say this? cuz they fall for the GOP bullshit traps every time…

    listen up kiddies…if the GOP put something stupid on the floor, like the Marriage or Flag amendments…don’t fall for it…don’t vote for or against…just vote “present”…this way you have fufilled yer legal obligations , but you don’t get cornered into where Rove wants you to be…on the record as either some kind of fucktard, or able to be shot down in a campaign as some kind of un-american moron who hates the flag and family values…

    give me more targets and i can go on for quite the while…i am an equal opportunity heckler…

    now..goose, gander…show me the GOP apologist who is willing to stand up and say what’s wrong with some Repub…i ain’t seen it from the lock step Rovian crowd…

    hope that helps, and as i said, willing to go further…pick a target and i’ll let ya know what i think…as usual

    Excelsior?

  • MCH

    Andy;

    Let me get this straight…my pride in getting out and making it on my own bothers you, but the mocking of the appearance of a dismembered combat vet doesn’t?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    well..i missed yers while i was typing Arch…

    but i’ll extend the challenge to you…toss out some
    Lefty, and i’ll tell ya what i think of them

    ya tend ta see me smashing the GOP more, cuz they hold the reigns in the House, Senate and WH…thus holdoing totalitarian single Party rule right now, and for the last few years…thus they get the brunt of my vitriol…

    but i can and will spew it as i see it…Ask and ye shall receive…

    can you say the same, Arch?

    Excelsior?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    You missed slick willie, gore and dean…but that’s not a bad start!

    gonzo is actually one of the better folks around here…keeping his slams on the subject at hand and rarely if ever using the cliche type of attack…I just wish you would stop with that rush/rove line you’ve been using lately…paints a bad picture…

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    You lost me on comment 136 MCH…what dismembered vet are you talking about?

    And you know fucking well that the part of your comment referring to sucking on the government titty is a slam to EVERY career military person…don’t pretend like you didn’t mean it that way…because I and every other former military person on here knows that’s what you meant!

  • JustOneMan

    GONZO REALITY CHECK GONZO REALITY CHECK

    He states…

    “hating war…yep, anybody who has been in one hates it, but sometimes you do what needs to be done, especially when you hate it…. courage ain’t being without fear, it’s doing what ya have to do when yer scared shitless”

    Implying that Gonzo (lol lol) has actually been in combat…hmmmmm…well for once and for all please tell us….PLAY STATION 2 GAMES DO NOT COUNT.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    for you Andy…

    slick Willie..my main problem with him revolves around giving away the store with NAFTA, the WTO and “fast track” trade shyte

    this lets the executive bypass review on trade negotiations…i can’t think of a single time this has worked out for the better of America and Americans…but it always seems to work out well for the multinationals…he helped found and fund the DLC which i rant about above, and gave the tax breaks/incentives that started the outsource/offshoring boom that has decimated the middle class and our industrial base in this country…

    Gore…his big mistake was listening to Donna Brasil and her ilk in the DLC…instead of playing bullshit bumper sticker politics, he should have been the passionate intellectual heavyweight he really is, and stuck to his principles…dragging W into the deep end of the pool mentally, rather than trying to out cheap shot the Rovian puppet…

    as for the Rush/Rove bit…my honest assessment is that those two scumbags are destroying any ethical foundation the GOP has ever had, tosing aside the principles that Goldwater, Buckley or even George Will have shown that paleo-cons can stand up with and help to make things better…

    those two bastards have brought about the politics of the broad brush big lie slam, rather than reasoned discourse between differing views

    and i would spend 10 years in jail to have a half hour locked in a room with the two of them alone

    nuff said….

    Excelsior?

  • JustOneMan

    ALERT—Pattern Developing

    Seems like Gonzo and Nancy are the same poster…editor unless you are in on it please edit…

  • Clavos

    Andy 139:

    I believe he’s talking about a comment made about Max Cleland.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    lol-erskates

    ya have ta do better than that….

    all the Editors can check IP’s and i have 2 that i write from…both are in Maine

    try harder, and it helps if yer funny

    Excelsior?

  • JustOneMan

    So Gonzo…lol lol

    Were you and “Nancy” on the front lines together? Did you share a fox hole?

    lol..hmmmmmmmmmmm

  • MCH

    Andy re # 139:

    Part one…See #123;

    Part two…So when you were an E3 or E4, you never had a PO or CPO above you whom the sole reason they were lifers was because they couldn’t make it on the outside? Interesting.

    Most of the career guys I met were great. But there were a few who served their hitch, got out, and then after failing on the outside, re-upped to put in their 20.

    I’ve NEVER considered you in this category.

    Signed,
    Your favorite “bleeding heart liberal”

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    You know, I’ve never read that RJ post…I know it’s an RJ post because I’ve read comments on here slamming him for it before…

    …and yeah, I’ve known a few “khaki klad klowns” in my lifetime…but I’ve met more folks that prove the “Peter Principle” out of the military than in it.

  • MCH

    So you’re worried about lefties never attacking righties…

    but if a righty calls a lefty triple amputee combat vet a “gigantic thalidamide baby”…no comment, eh?

    No double standard there…

  • MCH

    oops…i meant lefties vs. lefties.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Like I said…I never read it…I only know it from the comments…and I promise you…if I read something on here I don’t agree with no matter what side it comes from I’ll make a comment!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    ok…so now, those that say i ain’t even handed about spewing invective…time ta sopund off

    yas got any other “targets” for me…

    or are yas satisafied that i hqave made my point with what i’ve typed so far?

    cuz i am, an equal opportunity Heckler

    Excelsior?

  • Nancy

    Why Gonzo – was that YOU under all that cammie? Didn’t recognize you in that foxhole, old boy. Course, I was busy staring at Juju, so you were a bit easy to overlook.

  • MCH

    “So Gonzo…lol lol
    Were you and “Nancy” on the front lines together? Did you share a fox hole?”
    – JustOneWarWimp

    One thing’s for sure, you’ve never been there…

  • Nancy

    Foxholes I can guarantee we were not. Gonzo seems to have served in the Navy; I was in the CG.

  • Dean

    I’ll bet the only combat most of you have been in is right here.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    well Arch…?

    where’s yer reply?

    where’s yer Answer to my challenge?

    where’s the retort fer my Lefty bashing up above, so i can shoot your piss poor excuse fer logic down with my “typical arrogant fashion”?

    c’mon, give it a try…

    but i would say…where’s the flip side?

    where are the rabid GOP locksteppers taking a swing at some of the stupidity in their “gang”?

    then we can talk about my “objectivity”

    at least Mark E and Andy are mensch enough ta step up, and speak out…

    that just leaves you Arch/Bing

    Excelsior?

  • Arch Conservative

    I have critisized the current admin and crop of gop congressmen numerous times Gonzo.

    To borrow a line from you

    “just because you aren’t aware of something doesn’t mean it’s true.”

    You want to step up to the plate and bash someone on the left?

    John Kerry

    bash at will Gonzo

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    i was talking aboutgiving me a target…and if ya read above, i already whacked at Kerry fer being a spineless weathervane who sold out his ethics and scruples years ago in order to play ball in the big chairs of the Senate…

    gimme a decent Target at least…

    Excelsior?

  • http://gopleftorright larry

    i think typically arrogant might apply

  • Arch Conservative

    well i wanted to give you an easy one so you wouldn’t feel too uncomfortable gonzo

    i’d offer up the aclu but you seem to think they have no agenda and are unbiased

    and you call yourself objective……

    why don’t you pick your own lefty who isn’t such an obvious pandering douchebag like john kerry

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    it’s a fair cop, larry, but society is ta blame…

    but i digress…

    ok..so some may think i come off as arrogant…fine

    fuck my attitude…try and deal with the logic of what i am saying…step to me that way, and let’s discuss things rationally

    step ta me and spout bullshit, and ya will find i can give at least as good as i get…

    is that arrogant?

    if so, fair enuff

    Excelsior?

  • zingzing

    i think he was talking about kerry, gonzo. arrogance and bc go hand in hand anyway. name me one person on here who doesn’t act arrogant.

  • JustOneMan

    MCH..the only thing you ever serviced were those saliors in San Diego…dont tell me about war…i know more about war than anybody in this stinkin place

    All my friends know the low rider
    The low rider is a little higher

    The low rider drives a little slower
    Low rider, is a real goer

    Hey

    Low rider knows every street, yeah
    Low rider, is the one to meet, yeah

    Low rider don’t use no gas now
    The low rider don’t drive too fast

    Take a little trip, take a little trip
    Take a little trip and see
    Take a little trip, take a little trip
    Take a little trip with me

  • JustOneMan

    SO Gonzo…lol…lol

    Whats the matter you cant take an objective bash at your fellow “servicemen” lol lol…John Kerry

  • JustOneMan

    Hey Arch….give Gonzo some slack…he is still suffering from the stress of battle

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    ok Arch..ya want me ta pick one…easy

    Harry Reid, the so-called minority leader

    this pusillanimous pissant with the personality of a dial tone and the politcal savvy of a dead junebug should not even have a seat in the Senate, much less be theoretically running the opposition party in the deliberative body of our Legislature…

    he obviously has NO fucking clue about the Senate rules, has even less of a clue as to how to run an opposition…case in point was the fiasco of two differing amendments about the troops in Iraq…to allow Kerry to put one out there that he shoudl have fucking KNOWN couldn’t get more than a dozen votes was sheer stupidity

    now, go back to his lame response to the State of the Union and you can see just how flat and politically tone deaf this little gnome really is

    not only was it blatantly obvious that he was giving a canned speech rather than a rebuttal, but it was a piss poor speech at that, delivered with all the verve of a 10 year dead corpse that lacked even formaldehyde to keep it together

    this stupid bitch would need to take a double snootful of pure meth to even come to a complete stop, much less do his fucking job of being the staunch Opposition and even pretend to be part of the checks and balances inherent in the Senate…

    there ya go Arch…just for you and just for Fun

    Excelsior?

  • MCH

    Nancy;

    Ahh, so you’re a Coasty…BTW, my comment in #153 was directed towards JustOnePhoney…

  • Martin Lav

    Should have told your boy Kerry: IT’S THE WAR STUPID…..

  • zingzing

    aah, mch, paying attention to jom is like hitting yourself in the face. totally not worth it, unless you just can’t help yourself. he’s got no points, he’s got no memory and he obviously cannot read.

    really, even if bing arch con bat nut is a total fool, he at least is entertaining. jom is just a waste.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Zing, you could just repeat that last post and change ‘jom’ to ‘mch’ and it would still make perfect sense.

    Dave

  • troll

    mch honors his comrades and gives names to the war dead now and again for which I respect him…though his fowl stalking is old news

    troll

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    troll sez…
    *fowl stalking*

    best….line…..of….the…..Week

    nuff said…

    Excelsior?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Is that fowl or foul?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    …:::smacks Andy around:::…

    if it was “foul” it wouldn’t be punny, now would it?

    sheeeesh!

    Excelsior?

  • MCH

    “mch honors his comrades and gives names to the war dead now and again for which I respect him…though his fowl stalking is old news”
    – troll

    Thanx, troll, i’ll take Parts I and II as a compliment, and am not offended by the Part III.

    Yes, the stalking may be old; but shall persist as rebuttal to the endless, bellicose rhetoric of the chickenhawks.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    The thing is, MCH, I kind of half agree with you about your point but there are two problems with your strategy.

    Firstly, it gets really repetitive, predictable and irritating to keep saying the same thing, even to people who agree with you.

    Secondly is that in a way it’s kind of lazy thinking on your part and actually gets in the way of engaging directly with the nonsense these bellicose bullies spout.

    Just sayin’.

  • RogerMDillon

    “to lump all the military in with…the asshole that raped and murdered an entire family”

    Andy, what happened in the past two days to change your opinion from “4 guys may or may not have raped a woman and murdered her family””

    He pleaded not guilty, so “I say fuck you just for writing it!” Now we’re even.

    Do you want examples of saying bad things about the Left about BCers or in the real world? You are going to find much praise from me for either group.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Secondly is that in a way it’s kind of lazy thinking on your part and actually gets in the way of engaging directly with the nonsense these bellicose bullies spout.

    Plus he’s so intellectually lazy that he can’t tell the difference between a chickenhawk and someone who just supports the people in our armed forces or a chickenhawk and someone who thinks we should actually THINK about administration policies before condemning them arbitrarily.

    Dave

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Andy, re: #122. I’m with you all the way.

    (Please forgive my absence on here for a day. I’ve been away on vacation with my wife, having some “downtime.”)

  • sr

    Gonzo#93. Real nice Sweet Pea. Sucking and fucking seems to be your fourtae since you exited left of your outhouse. Be proud of who you are Sweet Pea.

  • MCH

    “Secondly is that in a way it’s kind of lazy thinking on your part and actually gets in the way of engaging directly with the nonsense these bellicose bullies spout.”

    Christopher;

    Thanx for the constructive criticism. I’m just me, you know, complete with all my flaws and weaknesses. But with all due respect, I must disagree with your “bellicose bullies” label…

    …”bellicose bully/wimps” would be more accurate, IMO…

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    There’s only one kind of bullying I see going on in these pointless diversions and it all comes from MCH. The rest of us are trying to have a discussion and he just wants to bully people he doesn’t agree with into silence.

    Dave

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Come to think of it, it’s a tactic rather similar to those who dismiss anything said about Europe by Americans because we’re an ‘immature nation’, and just as much of a cheap shot.

    Dave

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    I don’t think you’ve got any room to be criticising others for lazy thinking, Dave, it seems to be a broad lifestyle for you. There’s proof of that in your comment above where you changed my words. I said the USA is a juvenile nation, which is simply an accurate description of fact which that fetid mass you call your brain changed to immature. There is a difference, both in definition and intent, that you seem unable to grasp. I wonder if there’s a name for people who continually warp reality to suit their rigid thought processes, something less provocative than “bigot” perhaps..?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Sorry Christopher, I was being nice. Good of you to remind us that the term you used was more derrogatory and even less accurate.

    I wonder if there’s a name for people who continually warp reality to suit their rigid thought processes, something less provocative than “bigot” perhaps..?

    ‘Eurocentrist’? Or just ‘Christopher Rose’, perhaps. But then the more of your irrational hate I read the more I lean towards ‘bigot’.

    Dave

  • Mohjho

    I seem to remember way back when conservatives would whine about the government and call it patriotic. I guess big government and restricted rights are the flavor of the day.

    I don’t recognize any of the above posters descriptions of the right or the left. It does look like the politics of talking points. Just rhetoric, no substance.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    Mohjho sez…
    *I don’t recognize any of the above posters descriptions of the right or the left. It does look like the politics of talking points. Just rhetoric, no substance.*

    Quoted for Truth

    which is why i try my best to talk about Issues or specific Individuals…

    one can search ALL of my commentary here on BC, as well as my Articles, and one will find i do NOT get into “conservatives” as a group , or “liberals” as a group…

    the only groupage i even hit on are the political gangs labelled the Dems or the GOP ( i refuse to call them “republicans” for various reasons)

    if only folks woudl deal with specifics and lay aside the broad brush bullshit…then perhaps meaningful dialogue coudl take place and the very real Problems facing us could be worked on rather than bullshit bickering and name calling…

    just a Thought

    Excelsior?

  • http://chloeandolivia.blogspot.com Amanda

    Isn’t the fourth the perfect time to remember the absolute necessity put forth in the Declaration of Independence for the people to revolt when government becomes destructive of their liberties? However else you view the founding of this country, it’s right there, in the first official document:

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. –That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

    That strikes me as the most important thing to remember, on Independence Day, and all year long.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    DAVE: me a bigot? Thanks again for the huge comedy input you bring to Blogcritics.

    How you get the idea that describing the USA as juvenile is derogatory only you know, but it is quite literally accurate.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    How else to describe the attitude of someone who is dismissive and condescending to an entire nation of 300 million people?

    Anyone who considers a particular class of people or group of people – even a nation – as inherently inferior can only be described as a bigot, especially when the position he holds is irrational and cannot be defended with any kind of factual support.

    Perhaps ‘juvenile’ means something different where you come from. The common definition here is “Marked by immaturity; childish.”

    Sounds derogatory to me.

    Dave

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Dave, my so-called dismissive attitude only exists in the insecurity of your own mind. Unfortunately it seems the difference between juvenile and “inherently inferior” is not.

    If you want to swap definitions, a bigot is someone who is intolerant of opinions differing from their own. That sounds like you, as you apparently can’t tolerate the fact that mine is different to yours. Mind you, juveniles are also similarly intolerant…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    ..:::munches popcorn:::..

    /whispers

    ummm….but a good Case can be made that, as a Nation, we are juveniles…we just happen to the the most bad ass juveniles in History…

    and that, for U.S., the Test will be coming to Maturity as the World “flattens”

    but i digress…

    /end whispers

    ..:::munches more popcorn:::..

    Excelsior?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    There’s a differnece between ‘juvenile’ and ‘youthful’, but I’d argue that at 230 years we’re more in the decadent and increasingly degenerate phase of old age. Perhaps a second childhood.

    As for Christopher’s attitude #191 pretty much speaks for itself.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    “old age”???

    lmgdao

    let’s see…the current boundaries of China were set at the founding of the Chin Dynasty commonly dated around 238BC…there’s India…hell, even European nations are what? average of about 1000 years basicly, with some border changes here and there…

    all the Nations of the America’s are kids…the bastard mixxed children of many Nations, evolving in various Ways…with the U.S. as having stomped onto the World Stage as starry eyed Idealists of a “noble experiment” Republic…and showed a drive and energy that flung U.S. into History are a major Player…

    my Thought is that, due to the Nature of our Republic, we have our good Moments…and those that are not as good…it’s just that due to our Influence, those all appear to loom Larger than most in comparison…

    our manner of dealing with , say…the Balkans, was Mature….but some might consider, say… pre-emptive Invasion, as a bit ….juvenile

    really…just Thinking out loud, not even tossing stones… i just can’t even conceive of the whole “old age” bit….

    not even in dog years…

    Excelsior?

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Thanks for the qualified support, gonzo. I’m not dissing the USA at all, Dave just seems to have this huge pre-emptive defensive over-reaction.

    Hmmm, I think the USA is juvie, Dave thinks it’s in the “decadent and increasingly degenerate phase of old age”. Yet I hate the USA?. Double hmmm…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    now now, Christopher…i really ain’t etting between you two….

    watching the virtual wedgies fly back and forth is Low Comedy at it’s finest….

    i Jest…i kid…

    difficult to stand back and try and See it all properly from the Inside

    one could Argue that the sheer acceleration of History since the U.S. stepped onto the Stage about 100 years ago might be Aging U.S. pre-Maturely…

    hence my “dog years” earlier…

    still, “early 20’s” (we knock of a zero for Nations…woudl make U.S. 23) can be a trying Stage of Growth…a Testing of Character, if you will…

    objects in mirror are closer than they appear

    Excelsior?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Gonzo, the current nation of China dates back to the 1930s, not to the 2nd century BC. I’m talking about nations, not about cultural or ethnic groups here.

    Fact is the US is pretty old for a republic. Think about some of the other historical republics. How long did they last? Rome has the record with about 350 years as a functional republic. Next is the Polish republic at 219 years. Switzerland is running at 208 years as a republic. All of the various French republics added together are only about 150 years. After that you’ve got lots and lots of republics around the world running at less than 100 years. Straight dictatorships rarely outlast the dictator and communist government or other forms of absolutist oligarchies usually fall apart in less than 100 years. Historically monarchies seem to be the only form of government which can last more than a few hundred years uninterrupted.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    /sigh

    please note, the date i gave was for the setting of her Boundaries, which have remain, more or less, unchanged since the date i gave…

    i Understand your point as it concerns “modern” countries… but i have been speaking of Nations, not governments…

    no real Quarrel here, as i said…just tossing a Thought into the gears

    Excelsior?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Is Roman Gaul the same nation as Modern France? The borders are more or less the same, but the language, culture, ethnic composition and government are all different.

    Looking at this history of nation states seems more sensible than trying to define the identity of a nation by its boundaries. Even identifying it as a continuous cultural tradition makes no sense, in which case the US would be one of the branches continuing the tradition of British culture.

    dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    one could Argue that Roman Gaul was the Birth of what we know now as France…it grew, and changed, from Napolean, Revoloution to present….with a lot in between…

    similar Argument for Britain beginning at the founding of Londinium…

    and thus North America is an offshoot of English and French influence…a touch of Dutch early on…and a steady stream of everybody else ever since

    on and on…

    Excelsior?

  • Dave Nalle

    One could also argue that our current society is the sum total of all societies which have gone before, but where does that really get us?

    Dave

  • SonnyD

    If I could interrupt for a minute. I have a problem. I usually get here late-should be in bed sleeping. Don’t have time to read all the BC articles so I developed the habit of checking to see what gonzo has been commenting on.

    In other words, if gonzo thinks it’s worthy of discussion, I’ll probably find it interesting. Now, the comment column on the right lists gonzo with 15 comments but his page says 0 comments.

    What’s going on? Is this intentional?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    where?

    to say that our Iteration is still young…

    juvenile, perhaps…

    /ducks

    Excelsior?

  • http://parodieslost.typepad.com mschannon

    MEM: RE: 109 & 111, it would be nice if both the radical left and radical right could stop throwing cow shit all over the field. I’m tired of cleaning my shoes every time I come inside…or before I come inside.

    I don’t know the answer. Part of it is how an article is first written, although my article on “extremism” got its share of wild men & women dancing naked covered in blood around the May Pole trying to sacrifice anyone whose opinion different from theirs’.

    But the best we can do is to make three decisions:

    One: I will endeavor at all times to treat others and other’s points of view with respect and consider them honestly regardless of what assholes or stupid they are. (Until it becomes intolerable, and then you can bash them.)

    Two: I will not let hyperbole, exageration, distortion, or rage distort my arguments. (Unless I’m doing satire, when all holds are off.)

    Three: I will assume that most people honestly believe what they’re saying, and regardless of how much I think it’s unimaginable drivel, I will respond with respect. (Until you run into complete morons whose only goal is to stir up shit. They may be fileted at will.)

    By the way, I love this country and am thankful I was born here (except maybe very rich in Paris). But I also never forget whoever it was who said, “Democracy is the worst form of government ever invented–except for all the rest.”

    That means we’re always going to be screwing things up, and, as citizens, we have a responsibility to speak out.

    P.S. Mr. Schannon? I may be old, but there’s no reason to rub it in. It’s Mark, LOL.

    In Decaf Veritas

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Amanda, I don’t like to say this, but those eloquent lines in the Declaration of Independence have no force of law in America, and are a distant reflection of the Bill of Rights of 1689 passed by the English parliament which talks about protecting “life, liberty and property.”

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    true there is no force of Law there, Ruvy…

    but it is an expression of the Ideal, of the one thing that Unifies all of U.S. weirdos and freaks and holy rollers, and soccer moms and NASCAR dads and latte’ drinking hip urbanites and college professors and car mechanics and commune farmers and pocket protector nerds…

    and the vast panalopy of disparate Individuals that makes U.S.

    personal Liberty, property rights…and the ability for “the pursuit of happiness”…

    one would think you would be well Aware that there are some things you don’t need Laws for…

    go figure

    Excelsior?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Gonzo, re no. 141 – I have the same beef with Clinton over the WTO and the “fast track” legislation. Pushing agreements through a lame-duck Congress? He should have argued more for the agreement and presented it when Congress came back to session. As I wrote in a column for The Boston Herald at the time, “[and] who knows how many senators he bribed to vote for this One Worlder legislation.” Ah, those heady days of NAFTA and GATT. Still opposed to GATT, but I’ve lightened up with regard to NAFTA …

    Christopher Rose – the USA is juvenile. As Dave said, you need to work on your presentation. That was just another way of quoting Johnny Depp who said, and I’m paraphrasing, that the US is a hyperactive, eager but dumb puppy-dog.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    MEM – were you watching that thing on TV last night too? I saw something on TV last night…can’t remember what channel, but they were talking about all the anti-American things that people like Depp and Maines have done…I turned it off.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    waitafuckingminnit here Andy…

    “unAmerican”?????

    i call bullshit!

    Maines stating on stage that she was ashamed to have come from the same state as Bush is NOT unAmerican, it is an Opinion…which, blonde tho she may be, she is well fucking allowed to have

    tell me honestly…is that kind of statement, or even Depp’s likening the U.S. to a big , eager puppy…unAmerican,or an expression of their Free Speech?

    now, which to you is MORE in th espirit of being unAmerican….stating your displeasure with an Administration and it’s Policies, or claiming that over one third of the population has a mental disorder/disease?

    see Savage, Coulter and the like for that…

    now, one could Argue that the two are the same, but let me point out that one pair are Entertainers, and the other pair pass themselves off as Editorialists who are influential in GOP politics

    Andy,yer like a brother, you know that…but here you are just way fucking wrong

    as i have spewed all over the Thread continuously..do NOT confuse or conflate dissent with an Administration and shit you want to call “unAmerican”

    every CEO that closes a facility in the states and offshores jobs away from american Labor is 10000 times MORE unAmerican than either of the silly entertainers you are talking about, for having their Opinions…stating such IS fucking American

    try not confusing the two

    pissing me off, i tell ya…

    Excelsior?

  • MCH

    “You know, I’ve never read that RJ post…I know it’s an RJ post because I’ve read comments on here slamming him for it before…”
    – Andy, #147

    “Like I said…I never read it…I only know it from the comments…and I promise you…if I read something on here I don’t agree with no matter what side it comes from I’ll make a comment!”
    – Andy, #150

    “…Of course, to listen to giant thalidomide baby Max Cleland tell it…”
    – RJ Elliott, July 31, 2004

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I was just quoting what they called it on TV!

    Step off Missy!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    The only problem I have with what Maines did was where she did it…

    …and I like puppies…so…that’s not a slam!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I wasn’t even a part of BC in July of ’04 MCH. That might explain why I never read it…

    I didn’t start commenting on here until around September of October of ’04…and started my blog, if that’s what you wanna call it, shortly thereafter…

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    and no more coffee for you gonzo!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    bah..not a single drop of coffee fer me today…

    am home, having stood up all night, and now about to go into 1000mg of vicodin so i can sit and perhaps nap for an hour or two…

    so, pardon any unusual quantity of vitriol…i was aghast as the whole “unamerican” thing, and think more highly of you Andy…

    no worries

    Excelsior?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I’ve never begrudged Depp for his statements…like I said, I like puppies! Those were the only two I saw before I changed the channel…then my thumb got tired from all the “surfing” I was doing…so I went for a bike ride…

    1000mg vicodin?!??! Damn, best I ever get is 750!

    Hope you feel better gonzo!

  • Nancy

    Since when is it unAmerican to despise W. Bush & hate coming from the same geographical area? W. Bush is NOT the fucking flag: he’s a politico whore who happens to have had enough money to buy his way into the presidency. It just makes him the biggest politico whore in the US, is all. If anything, the woman should be saluted for having the taste to be appalled to have to claim the same area as ‘home’ with that boorish faux-cowboy piece of lawless chickenshit.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    to bad she didn’t have the guts to say it in this country…then I’d have a lot less heart burn over it…it’s easy to slam the administration or a political party when you’re around “friends”…wonder what might have happened had she said what she said at a concert in Texas instead of a concert in Britain or France???

  • http://www.fifthdentist.blogspot.com The Fifth Dentist

    What drivel. Manning, did you really once write for the Boston Herald? What a birdcage liner that newspaper must be. In your opinion we should “stop thinking about Haditha” and muster into a self-congratulatory nationwide circle jerk? If you think that critical self-analysis is counter-productive then you’ve either never read the letters of Lincoln, Washington, and Madison or you’ve failed to understand them. We are a great country in large part because we have ideals that we take seriously and that we’re continuously checking ourselves against. Your utopia is the unquestioning fascistic flagwaving America that you find only in the heads of twelve year olds from Orange County. Oh and the “left” believes that America “asked for 9/11.” Bullshit. If you’re talking about me, the “left” wants to get the motherfuckers who actually did 9/11. It seemed like we started going down that road in Afghanistan when we got diverted into this pointless clusterfuck in Iraq. I’m proud of America. I’m proud of our deals and some of the things we’ve done. But we’ve also done plenty of bad, misguided, ignorant and incompetent shit that we need to start correcting as soon as possible. Nitwit columns such as this one aren’t helping.

  • http://parodieslost.typepad.com mschannon

    It occurs to me that I read somewhere, sometime in the past (I try to read in the future but it’s very hard), something about someone–I forget who–but the jist of it was that if it wasn’t for vitriolic, hysterical, personal attacks, most people would have nothing to say at all.

    Sigh…

    In Gonzo’s Vicodin Veritas (and you don’t even share!)

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Hey dentist,

    The date on your sweetheart of a comment is 11 July. The point of Mr. Manning’s article is that for one day, a day that passed a week ago, one should suspend all the criticism and analyses and be grateful for the joy of being where you are.

    Even I, who left America for browner pastures tht will be greener one day, can comprehend that…

    The Fourth is long past. You can go back to getting rid of all the incompetent shit you guys do – like propping up your pathetic puppets in Jerusalem.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    Ruvy sez…
    *The point of Mr. Manning’s article is that for one day, a day that passed a week ago, one should suspend all the criticism and analyses and be grateful for the joy of being where you are.*

    a fallacy whe M.E.M. start off with things like…
    *To all members of the Angry Left:

    Today is Independence Day. Let me just remind you what that is, since you have probably blocked it out and deny all knowledge of it.*

    hardly a reconcilliary tone…

    or how about…
    *Stop thinking about Haditha and how much you “support the troops” yet are willing to believe every negative piece of news you hear about them, judging them guilty before proven innocent. Stop thinking about Guatanamo Bay and how you would love to set every poor terrorist currently locked up there free to walk the streets and kill Americans. Cease thinking about 9/11 and how America asked for it and deserved it.*

    again, insulting anyone who has any kind of dissent and making that kind of person out to be in collusion with terrorists…”how you would love to set every poor terrorist currently locked up there free to walk the streets and kill Americans.”…just to emphasise i put it up there again…

    and to conclude…
    *Cease thinking about 9/11 and how America asked for it and deserved it. *

    my whole take on this rancid piece fo vitriol was NOT an offer at reconcilliation and peaceful co-existance for a Day

    rather, it was just another hate filled, factually challenged, sterotyping, broad brush attack meant as red meat to the lockstep “GOP” types…in the guise of suggesting peace, the Poster instead attempts to piss in people’s faces…

    favorite attack fo the Rovians is to go broad, go big…demand Objectivity from their Opponents while remaining as hate filled and subjective as they can

    and i, am way fucking tired of the Tactic

    Excelsior?

  • http://www.fifthdentist.blogspot.com The Fifth Dentist

    Good point Gonzo. The lack of a conciliatory tone here shows what what a disingenous reprehensible piece of crap this thing is.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    So gonzo, can we now use ‘rovian’ as an adjective to describe the same behavior from either party, or is it just going to remain a partisan attack term as you’ve been using it thus far?

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    for #224…

    the term can and will be Used whenever it seems fit…

    for the Dems..i tend to go with a “carville” for the down and dirty…or a “brasil” or a “shrum” for complete fuck-ups where a race is lost due to idiocy

    out of them all a “carville” may be a pit-bull like digging in and fighting back reaction…there is a huge difference between the magnitude of that and a “rovian” tactic for the most part…

    knowing Karl’s history, and track record…i do place him up there at the top of all time Manipulators in the arena politic…using his name as an adjective is nto meant as any kind of slam at the GOP (save that they at times appear slavishly devoted to followinr their Orders), as it is a personal affront and attack on an Individual (Rove) and what he has orchestrated and gotten away with…

    so “rovian” is non-partisan…but it IS about the worst insult i can come up with…when i use it, be caertain it is not being used as any kind of approval, and know it will signify something i consider poorly…

    hope that helps, and do note that i am being VERY fucking specific here, as opposed to the typical broad brush shit that most partisans utilize the most

    if you need further explanation, merely Ask

    Excelsior?

  • Dave Nalle

    I see ‘rovian’ as awfully similar to ‘machiavellian’ – frequently used as a negative, but if considered objectively often really more of a compliment.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    for the Record: i consider Rove to be perhaps the ONLY competant, if not genius, amongst the Administration

    check out John Dean’s new book… “Conservatives without a Conscience”

    i’m NOT advocating it’s positions, per se, but it IS some interesting work by not only a notable Historian…but someone who has spent time in the WH as staff in controversial times

    Excelsior?

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Now the date is 12 July – Marching Day in Northern Ieland, and a day after murderous terror attacks in Bombay. Mark’s article was about a day that passed eight days ago. It’s a stale hotdog by now. Perhaps it’s time to move on.

    Just a note. At least a few people here realize that Machiavelli was not evil and that for all that he wrote, he sought the unification of his country – even under his erstwhile enemies – and that he was willing to trim his political sails to accomplish the greater good for his country.

  • troll

    fyi from the 1937 edition of the OED:

    Machiavellian, 1568 – of or pertaining to, or characteristic of Machiavelli, or his alleged principles; preferring expediency to morality; practicing duplicity, esp. in statecraft; astute, cunning, intriguing 1579

    now that’s what I call a complement – !

    troll

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Are we really trying to pretend that there’s NOT a blame America crowd? and it’s not full of liberals?

    ’cause, if anything deserves to have the bullshit flag raised on it, that would be it…there most definately is a blame America crowd and I promise you, there are very very few conservatives or libertarians in it…

  • troll

    *there most definately is a blame America crowd and I promise you, there are very very few conservatives or libertarians in it…*

    what are you saying here Andy – that conservatives and libertarians are better at double think or have more defective memories than other people – ?

    let me suggest that most of those whom you would consider members of the ‘blame America’ group are just in reaction against the positivist bullshit propaganda pouring out whining ‘my leader right or wrong’

    troll

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    double think? defective memories? I’d put all that on the blame America crowd as well!

    I’m not talking about the my leader right or wrong crowd here…that’s probably most of the conservatives…I’m talking about the crowd that says stupid shit like 9/11 was America’s fault…

  • troll

    you mean past US policy had nothing to do with it – ?

    sorry to snipe and run – gotta go to work…

    troll

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I don’t think anything a government does is a reason to destroy two 110 floor buildings filled with innocent civilians…but that’s just me.

    As I said on September 11, 2001…I can understand the Pentagon as a target…it’s military…but the Twin Towers were civilian, so no, I don’t think it was the fault of our government that those buildings were taken down, it was the fault of a group of extremists that believe that purposely killing civilians is a good thing.

  • troll

    *I don’t think anything a government does is a reason to destroy*

    of course it is…unfortunately attacking civilians has plenty of precedent now – (see fire bombing in ww2 etc)

    troll

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I thought you were going to work?

  • Clavos

    Attacking civilians is the central element in the concept of “Total War,” first developed during the nineteenth century, and which involves the mobilization of ALL of a nation’s resources toward the goal of winning the war.

    Total war had its zenith with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WW II.

    A complete treatise on total war is available in this Wikipedia article.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    There’s also a difference between a defensive war, which is what Britain and its allies were fighting in WW2, and an offensive war as waged by the Germans and Japanese.

    If one country is trying to conquer another, pretty much anything goes in defending oneself…

  • Clavos

    If one country is trying to conquer another, pretty much anything goes in defending oneself…

    …which is why the USA obliterated several hundred thousand Japanese. And it worked, well beyond the immediate goal of ending the war in the Pacific; the example has served as a deterrent against nuclear war ever since, though I don’t think that was one of the goals at the time.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    check out John Dean’s new book… “Conservatives without a Conscience”

    i’m NOT advocating it’s positions, per se, but it IS some interesting work by not only a notable Historian…but someone who has spent time in the WH as staff in controversial times

    Not to mention a convicted felon and turncoat.

    Dave

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Not to mention a convicted felon and turncoat.

    Too bad he isn’t a convicted felon and a complete fucking lunatic, then he’d have the credibility and integrity of G. Gordon Liddy. Or, for that matter, a complete fucking lunatic whose felony conviction was overturned, so he’d have the credibility and integrity of Ollie North.

  • Nancy

    I would settle for a conviceted felon & turncoat who had the talent to go up against Rove 1-on-1 & give as good as he dishes out. Christ, I’d love to see someone go up & beat the crap out of Rove with his own tactics, and shred him for good.

  • Dave Nalle

    Why would you want that, Nancy? Aren’t Rove’s tactics just as evil when used by your side as they are when Rove uses them for the other side? Or is this a case of the ends justifying the means? That’s certainly the rationale under which Rove is allowed to operate.

    And regarding Libby and North, at least they’re both fun and entertaining to watch. Ever seen John Dean speak? He’s the cure for insomnia. He makes Gore look like a wild and crazy guy.

    Dave

  • Nancy

    I said ‘1-on-1 with Rove’, Dave. I’d like to see someone beat the shit out of ROVE, specifically, with his own tactics, and leave him bloody(literally or figuratively) on the floor, so he could then crawl off the stage of history for good & hopefully go die in a hole somewhere, as he deserves. IMO he’s done more to trash what little good there’s been in American politics, and brought us all to new lows, than anyone else in the past 200 years. Even Poppy Bush had the common sense to get rid of him, & had no use for a scumbag like him; it says it all to me that Junior is so low & lacking in any kind of ethics whatsoever that he’d employ the bastard, & count him as a good buddy.

  • MCH

    I think Karl Rove is Dave Nalle’s kind-of-guy.

  • Nancy

    No, not so. There’s no one on BC that’s that low, that I know of. Some are just a little dense, perhaps, but no one here is that lacking in morals or ethics. Karl Rove is about as low as a human can go; I put him on a par morally with child molesters.

  • MCH

    At first I thought so too, Nancy…but why does he keep defending him?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Um, I kind of like Karl Rove, actually. Think of it as a guilty pleasure. He’s not a Neocon, he’s not a Fundie. He has no ideology except victory and utterly crushing the opposition. That’s sort of appealing. That’s the kind of guy you want to have on your side. He also makes some damned fine speeches and is surprisingly charismatic in his George Costanza kind of way. I’d never, ever, ever vote for him for anything, but I have to admire how well he does what he does.

    Dave

  • troll

    whoever programmed him did a poor job inputting the three laws

  • troll

    Christopher – *If one country is trying to conquer another, pretty much anything goes in defending oneself…*

    so…had Saddam deployed WMDs against American cities he would have been justified – ?

    does the same hold true for those who resist occupation – ?

    troll

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    troll: real life is complex enough so I’ll leave hypotheticals to others. As far as I can understand it defending one’s country and resisting occupation are the same thing if a country is actually under attack by another.

  • troll

    *real life is complex enough so I’ll leave hypotheticals to others.*

    and then perhaps you should avoid normative statements as well…like yours justifying attacks on civilian populations

    troll

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    troll: I’ve no idea what the expression “normative statements” means and I’m not aware of justifying attacks on civilian populations. If your country invaded mine, I’d do whatever it takes to get rid of you.

    I do believe it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees, although I’d hope never to be put in a position of having to make such a dreadful choice.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    I think everyone should read this. If a bunch of British editorialists can feel this way, it’s really sad that a certain political class of Americans cannot.

    By the way, it’s not that Maines doesn’t have the right to free speech, but bashing Bush overseas is just stirring up the foreign anti-American crowd, and that’s her crime.