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America’s Middle East Policy and Israel’s Role

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It is no secret that in the Middle East today, and since its creation in 1948, the government of Israel has stood head and shoulders above the neighboring Arab states as America’s most trusted ally. The reward for Israel for this alliance has translated into unqualified support of Israel by successive US administrations  in the Security Council, where the US has vetoed or abstained from every resolution critical of Israel without exception. Israel also tops the list of countries which receive financial and military aid from the government of the United States. The Israeli Defense Forces military hardware includes some of America’s most sophisticated and prized fighter planes, tanks and other weapons of war, some of which are not available to any of the Arab states who count themselves as allies of the US, e.g. Saudi Arabia. According to the Congressional Research Service Report for Congress, US Foreign Aid to Israel Update of January 2, 2008:

U.S. military aid has helped transform Israel’s armed forces into one of the most technologically sophisticated military forces in the world. U.S. military aid for Israel has been designed to maintain Israel’s qualitative edge over neighboring countries, since Israel must rely on better equipment and training to compensate for a manpower deficit in any potential regional conflict. U.S. military aid, a portion of which may be spent on procurement from Israeli defense companies, also has helped Israel to build a domestic defense industry, which ranks as one of the top ten suppliers of arms worldwide.

The comparative military and financial advantage accorded Israel over the Arab states is in addition to the enormous political influence that Israel exercises in shaping US Middle East policy to its obvious advantage. An example of this is the obligatory consultation of the Israeli government whenever the White House plans major arms sales to an Arab or Gulf State ally. In 2007, when the Bush Administration announced the increase in US military assistance to Israel by six billion dollars over the next ten years in annual increments which will reach $3.1 billion a year by 2018, it went to great lengths to ensure that the wording of the announcement would be crafted carefully to satisfy the government of Israel. Part of the statement by Nicholas Burns, then under secretary of state for political affairs, detailed in the above mentioned Report for Congress, read:

We consider the 30 billion dollars in assistance to Israel to be an investment in peace – in long term peace. Peace will not be made without strength. Peace will not be made without Israel being strong in the future. Of course, our objective as a country and our specific objective as a government is to contribute to that peace, a peace between Israel and the Palestinian people, the creation of an independent Palestinian state willing to live side by side in peace with Israel, and a general peace in the region that has eluded the Israeli people for 59 years but which is, we hope, the destiny of the Israeli people as well as the Arab peoples of the region. Our policy in this entire region is dedicated to that final objective.

This obligatory consultation is in sharp contrast to the often high-handed way in which Israel has traditionally dealt with the Palestinians. The thorny issue of Jewish settlements on the West Bank and the other parts of the occupied territories is a good example. Israel continues to build settlements in blatant contravention of the call by President Obama to halt further settlements while the peace process is in progress. Israel also just recently expelled Palestinians from East Jerusalem, an act that is an obvious impediment to the peace process.

The many factions of the Jewish lobby in the US, AIPAC, JDL and B’nai B’rith, constitute a formidable lobbying and public relations front on behalf of Israel in the corridors of power in Washington. This writer is in no way against Israeli interest nor am I coming down on the side of the Palestinians. I am well aware that any criticism of Israel on the issue of peace in the Middle East is quickly seen as anti-Semitism. It is my view, however, that  America’s Middle East policy is too heavily skewed in favor of Israel and this unevenness is probably at the heart of the discontent, resentment and restiveness felt by the Palestinians and most of the Moslem world. The extreme manifestation of these negative feelings come back to us in the form of terrorist acts by those radical factions of freedom fighters in Palestine and the rest of the Moslem world, directed at Israel and the United States. The news media here in the US have failed to step up to the plate in articulating the disparity in US Middle East policy and how aversely it affects the Palestinians. Suicide bombing, a terrible act of violence for sure, is always widely covered in the news and roundly condemned by government officials when it happens in Israel. When, on the other hand, the IDF marches into the occupied territories to exact revenge for the suicide bombing, usually in a manner and severity disproportionate to the bombing,  the Palestinian casualties of the IDF incursion scarcely get a mention, and nary a quip from the same government officials. The news outlets nearly always feel a duty to offer an explanation for the IDF action before the Israeli government offers one. It is always that the action was in retaliation for the terrorist act by the Palestinian bomber and by extension, the work of Hamas or any of the other resistance organizations fighting Israel’s occupation.

The Palestinian Authority, formerly headed by the late Yasser Arafat and now by Mahmoud Abbas, is virtually impotent in exercising any form of authority in Palestine. Israel orchestrates and controls every aspect of civic life in the occupied territories like a puppeteer controls a puppet show. Water, electricity, roads and movement in the territory are under the strict control of the Israeli government, and can be shut down any time Israel feels like doing so. Unemployment forces most Palestinians to seek jobs in Israel but those jobs are as tenuous as their very existence as free citizens of their country. How often have we read about those same workers barred from entry into Israel following some incident in Israel? Yasser Arafat, although a popular leader of Palestinians throughout his life, was severely marginalized by the vicious propaganda arrayed against him by Israel, which continued to view him as a terrorist and murderer, propaganda that found sympathetic ears in Congress and colored US foreign policy with respect to the Palestinians. In the end, Arafat spent his last years a virtual prisoner in his ever-shrinking compound, under siege by Israeli tanks. He could not travel freely except with Israel’s assent. Following his death, Israel and Washington, in search of a less strident and uncompromising leader to succeed him, called for an election in the occupied territories. In an outcome that was a black eye to Israel and Washington, Hamas won the election in a landslide. To no one’s particular surprise, the Bush Administration and Israel promptly rejected the results of a fair election victory for Hamas on the grounds that Hamas was a terrorist organization; the popular will of the Palestinians did not count. Aid to the Palestinian Authority was suspended, among other draconian measures calculated to bring down the Hamas-led government.

America’s role in brokering peace between Israel and the Palestinians will always fall short of total impartiality as long as Israel continues to have such a strong influence on our Middle East policy, tilting it heavily in favor of Israel, while demanding impossible concessions from the Palestinians. This view has been echoed by many prominent world figures, including President Carter and Bishop Desmond Tutu. The best-kept secret in America is the fact that there are strong voices of dissent within Israel calling for a more humane treatment of Palestinians by Israel as a means of achieving the peace that has proved so elusive to both nations since the very creation of Israel. This dissent has found expression even within the IDF where ranking officers have openly refused to serve in the occupied territories. Of course, the Israeli government as a rule does not brook criticism of its treatment of the Palestinians, regardless of the source of such criticism. Jimmy Carter’s book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, got a not unexpected hostile reception in Israel and among supporters of Israel’s policy towards the Palestinians. Another book, “Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History by Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar and former political science professor at DePaul University, fared no better in Israeli government circles or with right wing Jews. No one can predict how long, if ever, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will take to resolve, paving the way for peaceful co-existence between the two. One thing is clear, though:  America’s Middle East policy will need to be more even-handed in order for it successfully to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

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About Charles Euchay

  • eileen doret

    Netanyahu is, today, effectively Israel’s rent-boy who prostitutes both himself, and his country, for US dollars and military equipment in order to enforce an illegal occupation. But as with all prostitutes, they soon lose their perceived charm – although it is doubtful that this one had any to start with.

    Benjamin Netanyahu tried hard to emulate one of his less than illustrious predecessors, Ariel Sharon – the commander of the militia who carried out the infamous Shatila and Sabra massacre, but our man failed in that also. Whilst Sharon was a deadly weapon, Benjamin is just a pop-gun. Lots of noise but no real bullets, other than, of course, those fired by the IDF last December, in Gaza, that killed three hundred children.

    This current leader of the Likud party, in his second attempt at being prime minister, has mortgaged his soul and body to the doctrine of 21st century political Zionism. The fundamentalist doctrine that still envisages a ‘Greater Israel’ running from Eilat in the south to the occupied, Golan Heights, in Syria in the north and encompassing every centimetre of land between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean.

    But in the last few weeks, Benjamin and friends, such as the jumped-up, self-styled, Moldavian spokesperson for the new Birth Certificate Validation Movement, have now a specific objective. That is to try to delegitimize the democratically elected President of the United States in the hope that through AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobby groups with strong influence in both Houses, there may be a chance to replace this choice of the electorate with one more sympathetic to the discredited cause of political Zionism: a man more malleable, more acceptable to AIPAC suggestions, a man less rigid in his thinking, a man more ready to please and even more generous with American tax dollar grants, loans and aid packages. In short, an American president willing to be a paid-up member of the Likud party of Israel. Someone should tell Benjamin, ‘You’ve already failed at being Israel’s Prime Minister, you have no chance of being the next US president.’

  • WTF?

    The birther group is a Zionist conspiracy?

    WTF?

  • Baronius

    Charles, I just want to say in advance that I agree with most of what Ruvy’s going to say, except for the part about dragging you through the street and hanging you.

    Actually, that’s not quite true (not the hanging part…eh, never mind). Ruvy will probably say that Israel has the right to determine its own domestic policy within accepted standards of human rights. That part I agree with. He’ll also say that Israel is better off without the US, and I disagree. What you, Ruvy, and I’m afraid President Obama don’t get is that the US and Israel need each other in a unique way: we are bound together as beacons.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Netanyahu is, today, effectively Israel’s rent-boy who prostitutes both himself, and his country, for US dollars….

    That’s as far as Eileen has it right. All the rest of her comment is a lot of garbage. But she has it on the money about Netanyahu, Sharon, Barak, and Rabin. All of them were rent-a-leaders who have prostituted this country to get personal gain and profit. Peres was and is the EU rent-a-leader who prostitutes this country to the Europeans for personal gain and profit.

    Rabin, of the lot, was the only one who saw where everything was going and tried to pull out of the Oslo nightmare. That is why he was murdered – by Shimon Peres, not Yigal Amir. Peres didn’t want the profitable deals he had cut with Arabs like Arafat queered. There is too much evidence around to PROVE that statement. Which is why NO Israeli government leader will dare answer and deny. He himself would get smeared as a collaborator with murder.

    Charles, stick with topics that do not have to do with Israel. You just do not have your facts straight. You quote fools like Norm Finkelstein and appear to look to James Earl (peanut brain) Carter, a man who never met an Arab he didn’t like, for guidance. You have an awful lot of reading to get a reasonable story out that is closer to the truth.

    I’m guessing that you are originally from Africa yourself. If so, you hopefully have some idea of how corrupt most African governments are. The Palestinian Authority, set up by Israel in a vain attempt to get a terrorist to reign in other terrorists, has been, more than anything else a pack of robbers who have bled the Arabs under their rule white. Only the effective castration of the Mahmoud Abbas regime has allowed some prosperity to return to the Arabs who live in Judea and Samaria.

    The dictatorship of Hamas in Gaza has been opposed, not because it is the “democratic choice of the voters”. The Israeli “leaders” have what most would view as a Stalinist mentality, and they have no idea what democratic means.

    The reason Hamas has been so strongly opposed was that the corrupt el-FataH had all sorts of profitable deals with Israeli politicians. El-FataH beleives in a strategy of “loot first and kill later”. Hamas has the same goals as el-FataH, the murder and massacre of all Jews in the Land of Israel, but they believe in “kill first and loot later”. The practical result of Hamas’ policy is that they will not make any money making deals with corrupt Israeli politicians. And the corrupt Israeli politicians want the comfortable old arrangements with el-FataH back. They don’t give a damn about Arab terror; they don’t give a damn about Jews dying. All they care about is their own pockets. Recognize the species of rat, Charles?

    For the rats on Government Hill in Jeruslem, it’s all about money – nothing more. And for the rats in Ramallah in el-FataH, it’s all about squeezing as much money out of the Jews before they murder them off – nothing more.

    That’s why both sets of rats have to die.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Hello Ruvy,
    I think you have failed to read my article sufficiently enough to get to the essence of it. I did not pretend that I was going to get away with ruffling some feathers, as I detect yours have. First of all, I am neither Jewish nor Palestinian or Arab. So, it is fair to say that I have no dog in this fight. As a citizen of the world, I am interested in world peace. The sole aim of my article was to offer a world citizen’s view of how peace between Israel and the Palestinians can be fostered and ultimately achieved. I do not come down on any side. But I do feel that US Middle East policy needs to be more even handed in order to appear and act impartially as a mediator in this age old conflict. I might add that I have many friends who are Jewish who have expressed the same sentiments. Like me they long for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. I am sorry that you could not see my neutrality in my article. I am not a politician nor am I any way involved in policy making that is likely to have an impact in this conflict. But I firmly believe in my right to express a view point.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Actually, Charles, I read your article rather thoroughly. I was going to comment on American policy. But the truth is American policy is not our problem here. The cowardice of our leaders and their corruption is. You haven’t paid attention to anything I wrote, I see.

    American leaders don’t give a damn about Arabs or Jews. They only give a damn about lining their pockets either with money (like most Republicans) or with power, like the Democrat in office.

    American foreign policy has been pro-Arab for the last 65 years – but when you have lots of Jewish voters and campaign contributors, you cannot do this openly – until recently.

    The only difference between Obama and his predecessors regarding Israel is that he is openly an enemy, while the others expressed theior enmity behind closed doors where Jewish campaign contributors would not see.

    What has changed is that since most American Jews no longer giove a damn about Israel, Obama can afford to be a lot more hostile in public.

    Obama’s hostile foreign policy is the best thing that could happen to this country. That is why I was for his election – even though I think he is a fraud from top to bottom.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    But I firmly believe in my right to express a view point.

    Of course you have a right to express your point of view. You have a right to that….

  • Franco

    Charles

    I respect your desire for peace, and your willingness to post your opinions. I have some questions concerning some of your perspectives, which might help me understand you better.

    First, you are aware are you not, that most Arab counties what to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and have since May 15, 1948. This hostility is Arab born and has nothing what so ever to do with whether the US or anyone else supports there right to exist, because most all-Arab countries do not even get along with each other that well. You might say, their hate for Israel is one of the few things that unites them. You have not brought any of these most important facts up, so I am not sure you have done any accounting for it in your position.

    Second, you are aware are you not, that Russia, China, and North Korea sells military hardware and software to many of these hostile Arab countries. This is ongoing, and as such, so is Israels own highly advanced military industrial complex, and also the continued US military support for Israel. You have not brought these facts up either.

    Third, Israel is not going to go away. Peace will only start to show itself the moment the Arab counties except that fact and seek to get along, thus opening up roads for reconciliation and building a mutual respect. So fare, for the past 61 years, right up to this moment you read this, the Arabs have refused to do so.

    Given these three realities, how is supporting the Arabs as you have asserted going to bring peace, when the Arabs only what Israel gone.

    For Arabs to except Israel’s right to exist, in their mind they have to except defeat by the Jews. How can they except defeat by the Jews when they’re whole belief structure that is based on there Koran referring to Jews as pigs and apes and calls for them to be subjected, and if not subjected, killed.

    How are the seeds of your ideas going to find soild to grow in the minds of Arabs of this mindset?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Franco,

    “Progressives” (go to the author’s web-site) seem unable to process the realities of Arab blood-lust. Or if they recognize it, they make excuses for it.

    When you encounter this bloodlust for the fisrt time, it’s understandable to make excuses for theses sick excuses that pass for human beings. I know that I did after the bombing in MaHané Yehúda (the central shouk in Jerusalem) in 1997 right before PessaH that year. But after bombing and bombing, and massacre and assault after assault, I find it impossible to feel sorry for these bastards if the IDF goes in to kill a bunch of them and accidentally kills a bunch of children purposely stuck in the line of fire by cowardly Arab bastards who call themselves “freedom fighters” – which is what happened in Gaza around Hanukkah when the IDF went in to silence the Hamas Qassam rockets that it had been firing in massive numbers.

    “Progressives” seem unable to recognize the fact that from 1921 on, Arabs incited violence, murder and massacre against Jews in the Land of Israel. They just sweep this fact under their ideological rug with a firm shove. They continually neglect the fact that when Jews have offered the hand of peace, they have been the first to try to cut that hand off.

    So “Progressives” have a “right to state their views” – just as we here have a “right to defend ourselves” – both meaningless rights doled out by the Protestant oligarchs who run America and use Jews as their managers and head-waiters – convincing the stupid Jews in their stud collection that they have a real stake in the process of murdering off their own brothers.

  • Franco

    Ruvy,

    I know of the Arabs incited violence, murder and massacre against Jews in the Land of Israel before 1948. I only went back to May 15, 1948 because just getting someone who is unaware as Charles seems to be to input these historical facts into there opinions is a big enough revilation. From there they can find there way to 1921.

    Now, if you would be so kind, please expand on this one for me…

    “both meaningless rights doled out by the Protestant oligarchs who run America and use Jews as their managers and head-waiters – convincing the stupid Jews in their stud collection that they have a real stake in the process of murdering off their own brothers.”

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Hello again, Ruvy,
    As the author of the original article that has now generated these comments (yours included), I have to say that I am saddened by the tone of your contribution to the discourse that I had hoped my article would encourage. I am not sure where what your background is but I am certain that the level of vituperative language of hate and intimidation you bring to this forum is unhelpful both for those, like myself, trying to understand your perspective and those who attempt to express a view point. I came to Blogcritics because I saw it as a place to engage in intellectual expression and exchange of ideas with others of like interests and in so doing, hone my writing skills. I think that one of the ethics of writing is objectivity and tolerance of other points of view. I recall that your first comment to my article was presaged by a veiled threat by Baronius who warned me of what ire and invectives you were about to heap on me. He even hinted rather coyly about shooting me and dragging my body through the streets. While I choose to dismiss such unprovoked violent language as the petulant reaction of a fanatic, I am impelled to remind you that decorum is called for when publicly debating issues with others; yes even issues you feel passionately about. What made Hitler’s treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany so abhorrent and worthy of universal condemnation was his attitude that Jews were “sub-human” and unworthy to live. That was a very dangerous attitude then and remains so today, regardless of who is propagating such attitude. My advice to you is to moderate your language while holding on to whatever points of view you belive in. There are going to be other issues and topics of discussion on Blogcritics that will evoke some passion in people. I intend to continue expressing my own views while listening to other people’s views, incluk=

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Sorry for the break in my last comment. I meant to conclude that I intend to continue expressing my own views while listening to other people’s views, including yours Ruvy.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Charles,

    Good article.

    Ruvy is a Zionist Jew who went over to Israel. He believes god gave the Jews Israel and Palestinians have no right. After all, god doesn’t think Arabs are special and didn’t give them that land.

    Therefore, like most Zionists, he is not interested in what is Palestine and what is Israel and has no qualms about moving in on Palestinian land. Because god said there is no Palestine.

    Do you understand now?

  • http://www.eurocriticsmagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy is also a very angry man, for lots of different reasons.

    His anger has led him to make some pretty silly and/or offensive remarks, including a notorious call for the nuking of Tel Aviv; repeated suggestions that 1. Israel should use its nuclear arsenal to nuke both Iran and Saudi Arabia and 2. That the best way to resolve the Palestine issue is to kill all the Arabs in the region.

    He also shares the view of the current Iranian President that it is the UK that is the greatest enemy of each of their respective countries.

    Oh, and he also thinks that people who don’t live in Israel should not have opinions on what goes on there but doesn’t seem to think that he should then refrain from commenting on the affairs of other countries.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    In all fairness to Ruvy, he’s had to contend with centuries of pent up anger, hostility and repression. What needs to be done in order to break these ancient hatreds is top educate new generations that there is a better way. Why the hell are we still fighting wars that have lasted for all these years? We do our children no good to perpetuate this insidious behavior. Regardless of religious belief, there has to be a compromise on the secular level. Even Christ Himself said render unto Caesar what is his.

    The old family Bible which my mother still retains has maps of the Holy Land. There is no mention of Israel. No mention of Gaza. But in large, bold letters is PALESTINE. There’s where I have a problem. There WAS and IS a Palestine. It’s not far different from the plight of Poland. Three times in history, Poland was obliterated from the map but the will and hearts of Poles were strong and they prevailed. As my Babci (Polish for Grandma) used to say, you will never understand until you see blood on the streets.

    What happened on 9/11 may have been dramatic but we Americans tend to blow things way out of proportion. Three thousand lives lost compared to the number of humans slaughtered in the Middle East? Americans have been very fortunate. We could have had it a hell of a lot worse. The attacks on 9/11 were skillfully used by the Bush Administration to promote an agenda for their own gains. Many corporate friends of the Bush Administration have made millions and have used the victims of 9/11 as their catalyst. This is where we should concentrate our efforts. While the majority of us view Muslim thought as archaic, oppressive and violent, we’re ignoring what’s going on within our own borders. The Far Christian Right has an agenda and they have the cash to drive it forward. Somehow I believe that the facilitators on the Far Right are less inclined to worship God as they are to worship the Dollar. Religion is a great vehicle for raising lots of money — look at St. Paul. The man from Tarsus established an organization that in many ways has become the business model for Tupperware, Amway and Avon.

    P.S. Help me out here, Cindy!

  • Baronius

    But for all of Ruvy’s quirky positions, he’s correct on the primary question of this thread, the culpability of either side in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

    Charles, I was wrong to poison the well about Ruvy.

  • Franco

    13 – Cindy

    “Ruvy is a Zionist Jew who went over to Israel. He believes god gave the Jews Israel and Palestinians have no right. After all, god doesn’t think Arabs are special and didn’t give them that land.

    Therefore, like most Zionists, he is not interested in what is Palestine and what is Israel and has no qualms about moving in on Palestinian land. Because god said there is no Palestine.

    Do you understand now?”

    Cindy, thank you for half the story. Now for the other half of the story.

    The Palestinians are radical Arab Islamic fundamentalists. They believe that god gave the Palestinians the land as their third holiest sight, and the Jews have no right. After all, god doesn’t think Jews are special and didn’t give them that land.

    Therefor, like most radical Arab Islamic fundamentalists, they are not interested in what is Palestine and what is Israel and have no qualms about seeking to wipe all Jews off all of the land because god said they are nothing but pigs and apes and must be either subjected, or killed.

    Do you understand now?

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Watch that, Silas.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Franco, I don’t have the patience to talk to you.

    I’d rather start from the beginning, with children, before they’ve undergone a socialization process that causes them to become the progeny of a sick, violent culture.

    It doesn’t matter what is said anyhow and I’m tired. Maybe some other time.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Glad you’re here, Charles. Don’t get discouraged.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    In fact, Franco, I think the most productive thing I could do right now, would be to go talk to my husband in my duck voice. It makes him laugh. That is what I call worthwhile.

  • Clavos

    So, you’re resorting to quackery, eh Cindy?

    [Ducks and runs for cover]

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Hey Baronius,
    Your apology is accepted, although it would have been more meaningful coming from Ruvy for whom you have elected to be a mouthpiece. I will be interested to hear your own personal views on this and any other issues under discussion in Blogcritics.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    duck voice. Is that what you had in mind?

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    The Palestinians are radical Arab Islamic fundamentalists. They believe that god gave the Palestinians the land as their third holiest sight, and the Jews have no right. After all, god doesn’t think Jews are special and didn’t give them that land.

    With all due respect, failure to capitalize the “G” in God tells me something. I hope others can pick up on it. Palestinians, as a general population, are not as sinister as you would have them be. The Queen of Jordan mirrors the thoughts of mainstream Palestinians.

    Therefor, like most radical Arab Islamic fundamentalists, they are not interested in what is Palestine and what is Israel and have no qualms about seeking to wipe all Jews off all of the land because god said they are nothing but pigs and apes and must be either subjected, or killed.

    Oh please. Bill Maher brought up a very good point Friday night. He says half of Americans don’t even know that Judaism is OLDER than Christianity! And these so-called “good” Christians don’t know the difference between the OLD and NEW Testaments. For a country of adherents, we’re pretty pathetic. But, in all fairness, it goes back to education. Look at the quotes I refer to in this comment. Study the grammar, spelling and usage of homonyms. If I wrote something like that back in my days in a Polish Roman Catholic School I would have been crucified. I remember once getting a four page hand written note from my 7th grade English teacher telling me that my poor penmanship was a sign of disrespect and inconsideration to my teacher. It traumatized me so much that I became the premier cursive writer in the 8th grade. Folks, I rest my case.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Cindy? Does your husband have a Minnie Mouse or Donald Duck fetish?

  • Franco

    11 – Charles Euchay

    “I came to Blogcritics because I saw it as a place to engage in intellectual expression and exchange of ideas. I think that one of the ethics of writing is objectivity and tolerance of other points of view.”

    Well if that’s true, would it be too much to ask to have an intellectual expression and exchange of ideas from you concerning my post #8 that was addressed to you.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Franco,
    I deliberately chose not to respond to your comments for the following reasons.
    (a) Your comments are a bait to draw me into making statements you are bound to interpret as anti Israel and by implication support for Arab causes. That would then be sufficient to further inflame your passion and spur you on to more invectives and name calling.
    (b) My article, as clearly stated in an earlier comment, was to encourage serious but rational dialogue about a subject so volatile that it is having an impact on the rest of the world who are neither Jews nor Arabs. Since I believe that the answer to the age old Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not going to come solely from governments and politicians of the nations involved over the years in the peace process, I felt I could give an ordinary citizen’s view of how I thought an answer could be found. Ordinary citizens like you and me elect governments to power and mandate them to speak on our behalf. That is why your view and my view and any peace-lover’s view can help lead us and our respective governments to a better understanding and, may be, ultimate peace in that region.
    (c) I have no way of supporting or arguing against the many allegations and accusations you levied against the Arab governments. My article focussed specifically on the dispute between the Palestinians and Israel. Again, in this respect my article attempted to explore how the US, the principal mediator and peace broker in the conflict, can best assuage the bitterness and hatred expressed by both nations and in such futile and violent actions.
    Lastly,I do not profess to have all or any answers to the conflict. I also do not lend support to either party, tacitly or overtly. Justice and fairness are unambigous by nature and can be seen by all when given full expression. In this conflict, if justice and fairness had been obvious and unambigous to both the Palestinians and Israel, peace would have been achieved long before now.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    A lot of folks have spoken in my name here, and for all this they haven’t a clue as to what I believe – in spite of having repeated it ad nauseum here for nearly four years.

    First of all, Charles, while I’m not an intellectual, I have used decorum and have used good manners. I suggested you do a considerable amount of reading to round out your understanding of the Middle East and particularly the conflict here in the Land of Israel. I’ve abstained from suggesting sites to go to, but given that you complain, let me suggest one to you right now. I suggest you go to the site of Sheikh Professor Abdulhadi Palazzi, a Sufi legal scholar whose views regarding Islam I use as a guide.

    The first point you need to comprehend is that Islam is not a monolith. It contains peaceful influences, represented mostly by the Sufi and very vile influences, which come mostly from the Wahhabi.

    But I suggest you read what Sheikh Professor Palazzi has to say rather than taking ideas second hand from me. Concentrate, if you will, on his view of the Wahhabi and the baleful influence they cast over the faith that he loves, Islam.

    After you’ve done that reading, and read about the behavior of el-FataH at their convention in Bethlehem over the last couple of days, perhaps you could be kind enough to Franco, and address the issues he raised in comment #8 – in the spirit of intellectual discourse.

    Nota bene, I do not hate Islam. And to be further clear, I do not hate Arabs either. I do hate the scum who have been influenced by the Wahhabi to murder off my people, and have no compunction in murdering them off in turn.

    This is what Cindy wrote about me – wrongly.

    Ruvy is a Zionist Jew who went over to Israel. He believes God gave the Jews Israel and Palestinians have no right. After all, God doesn’t think Arabs are special and didn’t give them that land.

    Therefore, like most Zionists, he is not interested in what is Palestine and what is Israel and has no qualms about moving in on Palestinian land. Because God said there is no Palestine.

    I used to be a Zionist – and proud to be one. Zionism was the movement to create a Jewish State in the land of Israel. When the Jewish State was created, then the goals of Zionism were fulfilled.

    When I began to comprehend that there was more than just a political aspect to Zionism, I began to understand that the “Zionists”, the leaders in charge of the country, had decided to go back on a considerable portion of their charge – settling the Heights of Golan, Gaza, Judea and Samaria.

    One reason they did this was very simple. Having fulfilled their goal, they could not see beyond that goal to a further goal, the Full Redemption of the Children of Israel.

    Why? They were not Jews who believed in G-d. In fact they were pretty hostile to the Jewish faith and the idea of G-d because they hated the rabbis who they felt oppressed Jews. They brought that hatred of the rabbis and hatred of Judaism with them to Israel, and distinguished carefully between a Jewish State governed by the concepts of socialism, and a state that was governed by the concepts of Judaism. They embraced the first, and rejected out of hand the second.

    The irony is that the very leaders who wanted to establish a Jewish State based on the ideas of socialism, spit out that socialism in the 1980’s. This left them with – nothing. Everything they had created seemed to have no meaning. So, needing an excuse to stay in power, they embraced “Post Zionism”, a philosophy that negates what they originally fought and died for, and sought to give the Arabs a reason to vote for them. What you need to comprehend about the vast majority of Israel’s “leaders” is that the only thing that interests them is power – continued power – and money. All the rest, to them, is just bullshit.

    When I talk about “Israel’s leaders”, I mean Shimon Peres, Ehud Barak, Tzipora Livni, Benyamin Netanyahu, MenaHem Mazuz, Avigdor Lieberman and the vast majority of the Knesset (parliament), a good portion of the top corps in the IDF, almost all of those who own the media here, and a hefty portion of those who dictate economic policy. My comment #4 dealt with these people and my low opinion of them.

    Your own ignorance of Israel and the Arabs living here, for that matter, prevented you from understanding what I wrote, and even though I have gone over it again here, I doubt if you understand at all. At your website, you talked about welcoming “progressive” points of view.

    I’m not a “progressive”, Charles. I’m a Jew, a syndicalist socialist, and damned proud of being both. But I stopped being any kind of Zionist when I saw the Zionist soldiers and the Zionist police of the Zionist Entity kicking Jews out of teir homes in Gaza. Like those expelled from their homes, I do not forgive – and I do not forgive.

    Finally, I do believe in G-d. But so do the Arabs. And in G-d’s good time, they will see that the Qur’an grants us what the Torah does – the right to live and settle the Land of Israel, and control over those others who are not Children of Israel to live here.

    I’ll leave “Palestine” and the distortions created by the Christians using the name the Roman savages used to insult the Jewish people for a different comment.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I guess I should have written “I do not forget – and I do not forgive.

    It’s after midnight here, and it’s been a long day for me.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Thank you, Ruvy. I have nothing against your long held views. All I ask is that you give other view points a listen and refrain from using inflammatory language in your disagreement. Let me also reiterate the fact that I am neutral in this conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. I will personally celebrate the day that peace between the two is declared. I am in no position to articulate or justify the positions of either party to the conflict. PEACE is my only interest in the matter. I will stick to the study of Christianity privately and be guided in my views by its teachings. I will not attempt to impose my Chritian beliefs on anyone nor will I hold it against anyone who decides Christianity is not for them. In the meantime, I hope that you and I and all those who contribute to this forum can continue to have a rational discourse of this and other issues of world interest and do so without rancour. Shalom and God bless you, Ruvy.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    I’ll leave “Palestine” and the distortions created by the Christians using the name the Roman savages used to insult the Jewish people for a different comment.

    But you see, Ruvy, these are the things we need to know. If “Palestine” is a contrived label then we need to know why! And, why are we still quibbling over Roman rule which has had no impact on us for 1,500 years, except for the Pope? I’ve never argued against an Israeli state, quite the contrary. What I do argue is the U.S. inclination to inject itself into Israeli affairs.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    But you see, Ruvy, these are the things we need to know. If “Palestine” is a contrived label then we need to know why!

    I have to apologize for not answering now, Silas; it’s nearly 01:00 and while I can read (sorta), my ability to compose the decent and detailed answers you deserve is presently lacking….

    Till later, friend.

  • Mony

    If the middle east has no room for jews, then they have no room for the rest of the world. Jimmy Carter should move there and f#ck himself.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Mony, I know of no one who is saying that there is no room for Jews in the Middle East.

  • peter

    Hi , unfortunately the author doesn’t take into account the fact that Arabs don’t want peace with Israel -they want Israel piece by piece . They openly stating their objective and recent Fatah conference proved it one more time – the objective to get all of Israel;

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Peter, your comment reminds me of one of my favorite jokes by a comedian whose name I forget. It goes something like “I know I am a paranoid schizophrenic but I still think the government is out to get me”. The only thing not funny with this analogy in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that we are dealing with a deadly serious issue that is costing lives and threatening world peace everyday the conflict remains unresolved.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Roger, in my attempt to respond to the negative comments by Ruvy, Baronius and Franco, I omitted to acknowledge your kind encouragement to me and welcoming me to this forum. I just want you to know that I appreciate your encouragement and that I am here to stay. I do not yield easily to intimidation tactics and will not be silenced by negative comments to my points of view as expressed here. Thank you.

  • zingzing

    ruvy, baronius and franco are a bunch of thugs. mraow.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    If the middle east has no room for jews, then they have no room for the rest of the world. Jimmy Carter should move there and f#ck himself.

    James Earl carter is the last President in my memory who gave us cold, hard facts and told us we’d have to sacrifice. What did the voters do? They booted him out because they weren’t going to sacrifice. Perhaps there should have been a world war in the 60’s. Maybe then people would be a bit more grateful for what they have!

    I do not yield easily to intimidation tactics and will not be silenced by negative comments to my points of view as expressed here. Thank you.

    I LOVE it!

  • Franco

    25 – Silas Kain

    “With all due respect, failure to capitalize the “G” in God tells me something. I hope others can pick up on it.”

    Silas, if you were paying attention, you would have clearly noted that I was mirroring back to Cindy exactly what she posted against Ruby using a small ‘g’. You would have also noticed that she used the “o” as well, which the Jews emphatically never use.

    But even though you missed this, what exactly dose this have to do with the point being made in my post? Why are you engaging in “argument against the man, against the person”, and not the point being made?

    “Palestinians, as a general population, are not as sinister as you would have them be.”

    The Palestinians, as a general population, as a general population, my not be, but their leadership sure is. And the geneaal population in Gaza voted for them. As far as the West Bank Palestinians, that is the only place peace as a place to spark up.

    “The Queen of Jordan mirrors the thoughts of mainstream Palestinians.”

    She may mirror the thoughts of many Palestinians, but Hamas has them by the throat in Gaza who incestuously fans the flames of hate into a whole new generation to keep it going.

    Interesting though that it was the Queens very own husband who went to war against the likes of Hamas types in 1970 in what became know as Black September
    , which caused Syria to attack Jordan as well.

    The only sympathy she can muster is for the Palestinians and their cause, but only in relation to Israel; the Queen has no compassion to waste on the Palestinians and Yasir Arafat when Jordan has been the target.

    She openly discusses the fact that Jordan did have to fight Syria and the PLO at the time to defend itself, and that her husband King Hussein told her it was the “gravest threat” in Jordan’s “history.” King Hussein had to attack and kill and expel tens of thousands of “Palestinian resistance fighters” from Jordan because they had attempted to disrupt the whole country. Noor relates “The thousands of captured Palestinian fighters being held in Jordanian camps by the army were also treated tolerantly.”

    But to the Queen, the Palestinians are always oppressed, except when Jordan is being attacked by them and then Jordan is forced to defend itself. She has no concept of the irony involved when she assails Israel’s right to self-defense against the likes of these same types of terrorists. She also avoids discussing that the terrorist cell calling itself Black September was so named because of the mass Palestinian deaths and mass expulsion from Jordan by the King in 1970 – in September — although she does mention that King Hussein topped their hit list and that they were responsible for the Munich massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics.

    “Oh please. Bill Maher brought up a very good point Friday night. He says half of Americans don’t even know that Judaism is OLDER than Christianity! And these so-called “good” Christians don’t know the difference between the OLD and NEW Testaments. For a country of adherents, we’re pretty pathetic.”

    You are not addressing the point in my post. Please explain what in the world that has to do with the point being made in my post?

    Please explain what the relevance is concerning what Bill Maher thinks he could possibly know about what 150 million Americana know or don’t know about the age of Judaism and how it relates to my point.

    “But, in all fairness, it goes back to education. Look at the quotes I refer to in this comment. Study the grammar, spelling and usage of homonyms.. Folks, I rest my case.”

    Arugment against the man, against the person. You are not addressing the point in my post.

    Pray tell, what in the world dose any of that have to do with the point being made in my post?

    So far the only case you have made is evidencing you unwillingness to engage with intellectual honesty with the points I have made.

  • Franco

    28 – Charles Euchay

    Franco,

    “I deliberately chose not to respond to your comments for the following reasons.

    (a) Your comments are a bait to draw me into making statements you are bound to interpret as anti Israel and by implication support for Arab causes. That would then be sufficient to further inflame your passion and spur you on to more invectives and name calling.”

    Argument against the man, against the person, instead of addressing the claim or statement. What’s that kind of argument called?

    First of all, there was nothing in my post to you that was invective or name-calling, in fact I share your desire for peace, I solituded you for it, and said so.

    I sincerely wanted an intellectually honest discussion/debate with you concerning one of the single most important realities in the ongoing hostilities between Arab and Jew, and how and why it is that you can ignore it when seeking to find a peaceful solution. That is an honest question!

    Second, for you to now accuse me of asking it so I could seek more invectives and name-calling, when I never did it to begin with, evidences your fabrication of this assertion. It also evidences how far from intellectually honest discussion/debate you are, and you have done it for reasons of your own.

    So kindly refrain from trying to fabricate something unture about me so you can have an excuse for not addressing my point.

    “(b) My article, as clearly stated in an earlier comment, was to encourage serious but rational dialogue about a subject so volatile that it is having an impact on the rest of the world who are neither Jews nor Arabs.”

    A serious and ration dialogue about a subject so volute requires intellectually honest discussion on the key issues preventing peace, and you chose to ignore them in your opinion piece and have chosen to continue to ignore them by trying to use me as your excuse.

    One central question you are avoiding in this conflict is the degree to which Palestinians are willing and able to accept the right of Israel to exist, and are willing to uphold acceptance of this principle. Similarly, another central question is the degree to which Israel feels conditions exist in which it is possible to allow Palestinians to achieve sovereignty.

    Israel asserts that one major condition of Palestinian sovereignty over any territory must be acceptance of mutual co-existence and elimination of terrorism by the Palestinians. Some Palestinian groups, notably Fatah, a political party founded by PLO leaders, claim they are willing to foster co-existence if Palestinians are steadily given more political rights and autonomy.

    Israel offered the PLO/Fatah just such autonomy in pulling out of Gaza in 2005 hoping the Fatah would keep its word not to support attacks on Israel from Gaza. In 2006, Hamas won a majority in the Palestinian Legislative Council, where it remains the majority party. Hamas openly states it is completely opposed to Israel’s right to exist, indeed its charter states this.

    In early 2007, Hamas and Fatah met in Saudi Arabia, and reached agreement to form a new unity government. Haniyeh later resigned, and a new unity coalition government of both Fatah and Hamas took office in March 2007. In 2007, the coalition of Hamas and Fatah collapsed, and the two engaged in a bloody civil war in Gaza. Fatah was defeated and was expelled from Gaza, and Hamas took over full control of the Gaza Strip. Fatah retains control of the West Bank. Gaza has been subjected to economic sanctions due to Hamas’ non-recognition of Israel’s right to exist and the continued rearming of the militant Hamas faction in Gaza. Sporadic fighting between Israel and Hamas in Gaza has continued and will as long as Hamas remains in power.

    What happened in Gaza after Israel pulled out, coupled with Hamas complete opposition to Israel’s right to exist, dose not make for a conductive peace agreement.

    “(c) I have no way of supporting or arguing against the many allegations and accusations you levied against the Arab governments.”

    Yes you do, you have at your fingertips all of the same information that I do, you just choose not to study and or discuss it.

    “My article focussed specifically on the dispute between the Palestinians and Israel.”

    You can pretend that the Palestinians are somehow separate from the greater Islamic Arab world if you choose. But pretending doesn’t make the facts go away.

    Should you choose to put actions to your words regarding engaging in intellectual expression and exchange of ideas and put away your fabrications against me as evidenced in your point (a) above, you will find me an intellectually honest and stimulating discussion/debate partner. And that choice is completly up to you.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    It is no secret that in the Middle East today….

    There are a lot of “secrets” that Charles Euchay has managed to miss in this faulty and ill-researched article. The kindest thing that can be said of this article is that it reeks of the “progressive” mantras continually murmured by the fools of the infantile left, mantras echoed by Cindy in her comments here. I attempted to send Mr. Euchay off to learn some of the less “secret” secrets about the region – so that he could discover for himself that the folks who pretend to be the pillars of Islam – the Wahhabi governing Arabia today – are really heretics who have seized control of the religion to push ideas that are heresy in Islam. He displayed no interest at all. Perhaps those of you who are not locked into your cages of “we are neutral and interested in PEACE” and can think outside of these cages, can see what I’m getting at here.

    It is simple – if you wish to write intelligently about the Middle East (as one writes about any other region of the world), it helps to have some first hand knowledge of the place. The chances are that you will discover that a solution to the problems here is not necessarily “peace” and that it certainly does not run through the halls of the American government, a place infested with Jew-hatred.

    Now I’m going to concentrate on something that is a bit more “secret” – the fact that many of the “Arabs” living in Judea today were forced to convert to Islam by the Turks, and are in reality Jews. They are in the position of many of Spaniards, and Portuguese, conversos forced to change religion by the regime, who practiced their real faith secretly. This article in Arutz Sheva deals with the issue rather well, but it is not the first media converage of this issue. Tamar Yonah’s blog entry came from this website.

    The money lines from the Arutz Sheva article:
    Some Want to Return to Observant Judaism

    South of Hevron, in Yatta, there is a large formerly-Jewish presence – and some even want to return to active Judaism. It is widely known there that half the residents are of the originally-Jewish Mahamra clan – a name that means “winemaker,” a trade that is forbidden according to Islam. “The people in these areas converted to Islam later in history,” MiSinai says, “and therefore more customs and knowledge and artifacts have been preserved.” These include Jewish stars over the entrances to homes, while in at least one house, the family has hidden a mezuzah and tefillin in creative hiding spots. One man pulled out a small Hebrew booklet of Psalms and Tanya with which he says he continues to secretly pray.

    Miro Cohen, a Jew from Tekoa, in eastern Gush Etzion, is very friendly with the Arabs in a nearby village known as Kawazbe – a name that he and they agree is merely a corruption of Kuzeiba, the original name of the famous Bar Kokhba.

    “These people are the descendants of Bar Kokhba,” Cohen declares. One Arab sitting with him can count his ancestors eight generations back, ending with a grandfather named Kawazbeh. Another village elder says openly that his grandfather was a Jew who converted to Islam. Some of the residents want to return to Judaism; they don’t call it converting, because they are “already Jewish.” On the other hand, Arabs with the name Kawazbeh have been arrested for terrorist activity against Israel.

    Those of you who can think OUTSIDE THE BOX will sense that the solutions to the problems in this region will not come from corrupt Israeli politicians dealing with corrupt Arab terrorists. They come far closer to the ground in a country where a lot of people know each other personally – even when they are not supposed to!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Now that I’m wide awake, I can deal with “Palestine” and how the misuse of this name given by Roman savages to this region to insult Jews will likely lead to a full scale war here where many people will die – including many innocent Arabs.

    In comment #15 Silas Kain wrote:

    The old family Bible which my mother still retains has maps of the Holy Land. There is no mention of Israel. No mention of Gaza. But in large, bold letters is PALESTINE. There’s where I have a problem. There WAS and IS a Palestine. It’s not far different from the plight of Poland. Three times in history, Poland was obliterated from the map but the will and hearts of Poles were strong and they prevailed. As my Babci (Polish for Grandma) used to say, you will never understand until you see blood on the streets.

    There is no “Palestinian” nation, and there never was one – and there never will be. Therefore there can be neither “radical” nor “moderate” Palestinians. One cannot apply an adjective to a non-entity.

    However there are Arabs who live in the borders of the Land of Israel. They come in a number of varieties but for the purpose of this comment, let us exclude the Circassians (Cherkessim) who live in Abu Ghosh, the Druze who live in the north, and the Bedouin who live in the south.

    The name “Palestina” – Palestine – is the Roman corruption of the name Phillistine, and was bestowed upon this country to insult Jews who continually revolted against Roman rule here – and who died in a six century long campaign of genocide that was reasonably successful.

    The Christians used this name in describing the country when they did not use the term “Terra Sancta” – Holy Land. This is especially true in Catholic countries like Poland, where the Kain family Bible presumably originated.

    The Arabs who lived here always regarded this country as a southern “suburb”, so to speak, of Syria. The main cities that governed all were in Syria – either Ptolemaïs in Greek/Roman/Byzantine times or Damascus in the era after the Moslems conquered the area.

    This was true in the Ottoman Empire as well. The whole region was a kind of southern backwater to the cities in Syria/Lebanon, and the provincial structure reflected this. The only area with any separateness was around Gaza. After the fall of the Ottomans in 1918, the Arabs gathered in Damascus to try to set up an independent Arab kingdom. In such a kingdom, the Land of Israel, if it indeed remained under Arab control, would have been viewed as “South Syria”, which was how the Syrian government viewed this region (Israel and Jordan both) for decades.

    After the Israel War of Independence of 1947-49, Arabs fled here and were known as “Arab refugees”. In 1968, Eric Hoffer a longshoreman who turned into a best-selling philosopher, wrote the following about the region:

    ISRAEL’S PECULIAR POSITION
    Eric Hoffer (LA Times 5/26/68)

    The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews.

    Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and
    Czechoslovakia did it. Turkey threw out a
    million Greeks, and Algeria a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese and no one says a word about refugees.

    But in the case of Israel, the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab.

    Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis. Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious, it must sue for peace.

    Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world. Other nations, when they are defeated, survive and
    recover but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June [1967] he would have wiped Israel off the map, and no one would have lifted
    a finger to save the Jews.

    No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on.

    There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or
    when two Blacks are executed in Rhodesia. But, when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one
    remonstrated with him.

    The Swedes, who are ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we do in Vietnam, did not let
    out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews. They sent Hitler choice iron ore, and
    ball bearings, and serviced his troop trains to Norway.

    The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel
    survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts and Jewish resources.

    Yet at this moment, Israel is
    our only reliable and unconditional
    ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us.

    And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer [1967] had the Arabs
    and their Russian backers won the war, to realize how vital the survival of Israel
    is to America and the West in general.

    I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us.

    Should Israel perish, the holocaust will be upon us all.

    In Hoffer’s essay, note what word is missing – PALESTINIAN. In 1968, the propaganda of the el-Husseini clan of Arabs from Gaza and Egypt, the marketing of “Palestinians” as a “people” had not yet taken hold. This was not to happen for another six years when the paedophile and murderer, Yassir Arafat, was allowed to dirty the United Nations with his presence.

    In Hoffer’s essay, you find the normative use of the term to describe the non-Jewish population of the region – ARABS

    Now let’s return to comment #43, which points out the Jewish ancestry of many ” Arabs” living in Judea are Jews – Jews forced against their will to convert to Islam. It should come as no surprise that the people living in Judea would be Jews, but those custard-heads who cannot look beyond their own propaganda would never notice such a basic point.

    Nevertheless, the world has chosen to buy bullshit – just as it bought the Obama-peddled bullshit that the arrest and removal of Honduran ex-president Zeraya was a militay coup d’état.

    So, the world will buy the bullshit that the terrorists meeting in Bethlehem are the legitimate representatives of a non-people whistled into existence by the el-Husseinis and the liars who worked with them, and that Hamas is not the legitimate representative of this non-people. To the north are Shi’a representatives of this non-people, who keep “resistance” alive in order to push the interests of those who pay their bills and who train them – the Persians.

    And “the party of god”, HizbAllah, will start a missile bombardment that will begin a catastrtophic war in this region that will result in the murdering off of thousands of Arabs in Samaria.

    Pay close attention to this, Silas. The King of Persia Will Destroy the World. This is what will result of the misuse of the word “Palestine”.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Ruvy, with all due respect, I believe that one can call for peace in this conflict just based on contemporary events. You seem to imply that only someone with an in depth knowledge of the history of both Judaism and Islam is qualified to sue for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. The problem with that view is that it dulls the urgency of the situation, not to mention the fact that such ancient history like present day events are open to interpretation and debate just as we are now engaged in. That brings us right back to my point – peace in the region can only be attained when the parties to this conflict are willing to bury the hatchet, transcend religious fanaticism, give up entrenched and uncompromising positions to truly work for peace. Take this Blogcritics forum for example. You continue to label everyone who does not buy into or agree with your viewpoint as “leftist, progressive, fools” and other derogatory terms I have heard you use in your comments. You don’t see people as independent thinkers or capable of expressing a point of view that is not necessarily tied to or based on group thinking. The notion that every opinion that is contrary to your own held belief is borne out of a grand conspiracy blinds you to the the essence and basis of that opinion. Most important of all, history has taught us that a lot of the seemingly intractable conflicts in the world only got resolved when parties to the conflicts brought a spirit of compromise to the bargaining table. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is no exception. Time is not on our side in the search for peace in that region and the world at large.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Time is not on our side in the search for peace in that region and the world at large.

    Charles, that is the only sentence in your entire comment that has any semblance to intelligent discussion, and that indicates some understanding of reality.

    I sent you to the website of Sheikh Professor Palazzi to learn two things. The first is that the Wahhabi have a basic belief that if you do not agree with their religious beliefs, ultimately, they will kill you. That does not mean just Jews – it means everyvody. The second was to discover that the two dominant groups in what has been marketed as “Palestinian nationalism” draw their influence and inspiration from the Moslem Brotherhood, an organization that is basically controlled by the Wahhabi and has been since the 1920’s.

    Conclusion to be drawn: there can be no negotiations with people who believe they are instructed by G-d to kill you. It doesn’t matter what any Israeli regime does. Both Hamas and el-FataH are dedicated to the destruction of Israel and ther murder and massacre not only of Jews but of all who disagree with their religious beliefs – INCLUDING YOU!

    Therefore there will not be peace, there will be war.

    END OF DISCUSSION.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Ruvy, thanks. I am clear now about where you stand on this issue. Peace is, for you, not an option. Violence, war and destruction are your solution to the conflict. Very sad indeed.

  • http://www.eurocriticsmagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Charles, it is largely pointless trying to have any kind of discussion with Ruvy about anything.

    My experience has been that he is like a stuck record – and that record is several thousand years old!

    It may be true that the Wahabbis are a pretty nasty, ultra-conservative form of the Islamic faith, but as they lack the means to carry out any such global slaughter as Ruvy depicts, his views get us all nowhere.

    Of course, the fundamental (pun intended) problem is that all this magical thinking, whether it is derived from Hebrew, Christian or Islamic dogma, is utterly pointless, based as it is in myths and legends, not reality.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Obviously, you have trouble understanding clear English, Charles.

    This has nothing to do with what I want or desire. I haven’t told you what I want. I told you what my enemies want, and based on what they want, there will be no peace.

    Now I’ll tell you what I want, not what I expect to happen.

    1. I want to see the former Jews in Judea who were forced to convert to Islam to return to the faith.

    2. I want to see the Children of Israel who live in Afghanistan and call themselves Taliban today, also return to the Torah, and to the land they were forced to leave 2,800 years ago.

    3. I want to see a government in Israel that tells the Arabs who live in what was once known as Saint Gilles and in what is now known as Sinjel the Arab town down the hill from me (as well as all the other Arabs in the land of Israel), that they are free to cultivate their land in peace with us, side by side as neighbors should, and that so long as they desire peace, we will live in peace with them in the Land of Israel.

    4. They will govern their own affairs in autonomous districts and there will be a Federal Council, an upper house of the Legislature that will be established, that will deal with issues that concern both the Children of Israel and resident Arabs – water, security, land management and foreign affairs. This Federal Council will have 60% Children of Israel and 40% Arabs and will roughly reflect the proportion of the major groups living in the Land.

    I won’t see what I want. But now you know what I want, as opposed to what you think I want.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Ruvy,

    I was wrong about how I characterized your beliefs? This is basically what I said: you feel Jews own the place and can go and live anywhere, while Palestinians should get out of the way and/or go somewhere else, like into some other country with other Arabs (which word you use like it was a curse and in a racist way).

    Let me adjust my thinking:

    You aren’t a Zionist because although you believe in the core issues–that Jews are entitled to have a state, that Jews should return to and take over ‘their’ native homeland, and that Palestinians don’t count–the Zionists of the state have become too political and less fanatical than your own tastes dictate, so you aren’t a Zionist.

    So, ultimately, I have you down as being a fanatic. You correct me and state you’re more fanatical than the other fanatics. Thanks. I think I’ve got it now.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Cindy,

    So, ultimately, I have you down as being a fanatic.

    It is irrelevant to me what you “have me down as”. You didn’t ask me.

    Maybe you should just read what I want instead of assuming that you know – because you do NOT know. I very rarely talk of what I want. I normally talk about what I think will happen, and why. So, go read comment #49 a few times. That is what I want.

  • Mark

    Ruvy, you should put more energy into writing about what you want…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Mark, I used to. You used to compliment me on my efforts. I haven’t forgotten.

    But the Lebanon War queered my efforts, and in addition to that, the institution I was counting on, the “developing” Sanhedrin, has proven to have far less than the potential I had hoped.

    I could kick myself for not having done more – for not realizing, as Charles so accurately put it, that time is not on our side in the search for peace in that region and the world at large. But all that would happen is that my back would hurt and I’d have bruises from where I managed to kick myself – a useless exercise altogether, unless I were willing to fly Cindy over to give me restorative massages.

    I’m not that rich, and my wife (not to mention her husband) might not approve.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Ruvy, I had conceded the last word to you on this issue in my last comment. I am hereby doing so again. Your jab at my inability to understand clear English, however, is bound to be met with some derision by those who write for and read Blogcritics. You can already hear the sarcastic chuckles that greet that part of your comment. Have a nice and thoughtful day, Ruvy.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Why, thank you for the kind wishes, Charles. The day is about over here; it’s nearly 20:00 here. As for your comments about sarcastic chuckles, you might want to check here for some of the articles that I’ve written for Blogcritics Magazine. There are a few you may wish to check out. As I said, you have a right to make an absolute fool of yourself with opinions based on shaky assumptions that you think are facts. Don’t ever think I believe otherwise. We all do thjat from time to time. Articles here may be stupid, and many are. But unless you openly threaten the life of some big muckymuck, you are not committing criminal stupidity.

    By the way, I realize that you are an unpublished writer. Keep writing. This is a good place for you to polish your style and find a good writing voice. Leaving aside all comment on its content, its terribly conventional approach, and patent falsity, your style could use some work, and with practice, you’ll find your writers’ voice.

    Good luck!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    #38,

    No problem, Charles. Soon enough you’ll be able to tell who is who and take things with a grain of salt. BC makes for quite a spectrum.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “Obviously, you have trouble understanding clear English, Charles.”

    Types the man who continued with the topic after writing “END OF “DISCUSSION.”

    “you have a right to make an absolute fool of yourself with opinions based on shaky assumptions that you think are facts.”

    Like where Obama was born

    [Sarcastic chuckles ensue.]

  • zingzing

    and torah codes

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    codex or codices, zing. (like “index”)

  • zingzing

    how about plain old “code.” it’s all one big bunch of phooey anyway.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    [Personal attacks deleted by Comments Editor]

    I KNOW the Arab arguments back and forth and could, if I chose, write an article that would have you all convinced that Jews should be kicked out of Israel. I know the subject matter at hand. Charles Euchay has evinced, at best, a “Readers Digest” understanding of the subject matter.

    It’s that simple. I could be more blunt – but I choose not to be out of a sense of decorum.

  • http://euchay.blogspot.com Charles Euchay

    Ruvy, you just don’t get it, do you? I and many on this forum are neither pro or anti Jews. My neutrality in this conflict is something you either open your closed mind and eyes to see or continue pretending to yourself that I am against Jews. Go back and read some of my postings and comments. I count amongst my very good friends some very nice Jews. They probably will cringe at the nasty things you continue to say about me and how I hate Jews. But you know what, I sleep well at night because I do not have all the angst that seems to afflict you. You can’t even see the hatred you spew out every time you write or speak. That cannot be good for your health.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    when and where did I pretend to be openminded to your foolishness?

    if you saved your fertilizer for your garden instead of this website, you would have an amazing harvest.

  • Baronius

    Charles, you may believe that you are neutral on the subject, but no one writes an article about whose subject he feels neutral. You took a position; namely, that Israel should be more open to concessions. It doesn’t make you an anti-Semite or anything, but it does mean that you have an opinion.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It’s amazing that Ruvy’s lecturing on open-mindedness. As to his characterization of others’ comments as dumb, it takes one to know one.

    I don’t know about being a scholar, as Elvira Black was gracious enough to call you so, but gentleman you’re definitely not.

    As to fertilizer, I hear that human manure does wonders.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That’s quibbling over words. He’s certainly more “neutral” than the gentleman from Samaria. At least he tries to be, and that’s a step in the right direction.

  • Baronius

    Not a quibble, Roger. Except for the first sentence, this article makes literally zero statements in favor of Israel or against the Palestinians. The closest it comes is Charles’s assertion that he’s neutral.

  • Clavos

    As to his characterization of others’ comments as dumb, it takes one to know one.

    What’s next, “I’m rubber you’re glue…?”

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Charles, you haven’t figured it out at all. It matters not what Israel does or doesn’t do in “negotiations” with these Arab butchers. The butchers, Hamas and el-Fatah, have an agenda of murdering off all who disagree with them, but most particularly us Jews. But you are just as much of a target for the Wahhabi scum as I. So are all the contemptuous fools who agree with you. It is just that the Wahhabi scum who will want to murder you will go by a different title – and to them you will be the uncircumcised infidel, rather than the circumcised one, the Sunday people, rather than the Saturday people.

    There is no negotiating with murderers – period. The only thing you do to a murderer is murder him off before he murders you.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    No, I’ll let the nursery rhyme go.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    All I know is that the one ancient belief which warms me is Tikkun olam, and I pray for it to come quickly. We’re a sick, sick world.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It’s happening, Silas. The moral arc of the Universe is edging forward. It’s the unified consciousness thing, inching ever closer towards one vision. The Age of Fanaticism is slowly becoming extinct.

  • zingzing

    “Man, the lot of you are slower than retards! You are as stupid as – as Tzipora Livni!”

    aren’t you the one who just a few days ago called me out for calling you crazy. crazy hypocrite. what are you doing arguing with retards anyway? isn’t that a bit cruel?

    you should go to your corner and think about what you’ve done.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You should be thankful, zing. Would you rather he be firing real bullets?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You wouldn’t want it on your conscience, Ruvy starting World War III.

  • zingzing

    “Would you rather he be firing real bullets?”

    oh man, the places i could go with that.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I can think of one, offhand. He’s firing blanks.

  • zingzing

    now see, that’s the obvious one. but to truly take it to where it needs to go, you’d have to go where none of us need to go.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You said it.

  • Bliffle

    Jimmy Carter was mentioned in regard to the middle east. One must point out that Carter negotiated the only lasting peace in the middle east, Israel and Egypt, and it’s still working. Also, he negotiated the return of the Iran hostages.

    Nevertheless, Carters use of “Apartheid” in his book about Palestine is really stupid. The word “Apartheid” is specific to the South African situation, and it rings false to try to extend that to ANY other situation.

  • Franco

    48 – Christopher Rose

    “Charles, it is largely pointless trying to have any kind of discussion with Ruvy about anything.

    It may be true that the Wahabbis are a pretty nasty, ultra-conservative form of the Islamic faith, but as they lack the means to carry out any such global slaughter as Ruvy depicts, his views get us all nowhere.”

    I don’t agree with that – I think complacency and or underestimating the threat can get us killed as Ruvy asserts.

    Just look at how powerful they were back in 1970 when they came within an inch of violently taking over all of Jordan which prompted Syria to come in to help the Wahabbi wackos finnish off Jordan. Luckily, simple Israeli fighter jet fly buys over the Jordan dessert sent the Syrian army all running for home.

    Additionally whom are you referring to as “us all”? Is Ruvy in Israel not included in “us all”? The Wahabbis are doing all they can, including counting on your complacency and or underestimating, to gear up to achieve the slaughter of Israel and piece by piece over time as they know their efforts are frustrating the whole world which then focuses it attention on Israel as the problem. But you don’t live there and so I guess this is why you discount those concerns of Ruvy.

    As for Ruvy’s reference to the killing potential of the Wahabbis doctrine of non-Jews else where in the world, it’s on the rise, it has happened in your own country Chris, and will again. It is growing and happening all over the world right now as you read this.

    Just this week Australia foiled what would have been the largest Islamic terrorist attract in its history.

    Nigeria, the most populous African State and also the entire region, from Chad to Senegal is under a new round of Wahabbis Islamic doctrine militant siege.

    Since 9/11 Muslims of the Wahabbis persuasion have committed and maintain terrorist attacks in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Chad, Chechnya, Dagestan, Denmark, East Timor, Egypt, England, Eritrea, Ethiopia, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ingushetia, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Jordan-Iraq, Kabardino-Balkans, Kenya, Kosovo, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Mauritania, Morocco, Netherlands, Nigeria, Pakistan, Gaza-Palestinian Authority, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Scotland, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka , Sudan , Syria , Tajikistan, Thailand , Tunisia , Turkey , United Arab Emirates, United Arab Republic , United States , Uzbekistan and Yemen. This list is continually growing larger.

    Chris, you can claim that it lacks a global reach to all of us if you want to, but I choose to look at what is actually happening all over the world. If you are one of those who think it can be easily stopped, just take a look at Afghanistan and Pakistan where it breeds. And Pak has the bomb and so dose Saudi Arabia at it has been found out, which is home to the heart of Wahabbis Kindom.

    Look at the never-ending slaughter in Darfur at the hands of the Janjaweed who are Arab hardcore fundamentalist Wahabbi Muslims. The United Nations says up to 300,000 people have died and 2.7 million have fled their homes since the conflict broke out six years ago.

    All of the above, and yet the world focuses on the poor Hamas Wahabbi militant state of Gaza being picked on by Israel for defending itself from some of the worse butchers the world has ever seen.

    I digress

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    I can think of one, offhand. He’s firing blanks.

    If George H.W. Bush had fired blanks we may not be in the mess we’re in.

    Nevertheless, Carters use of “Apartheid” in his book about Palestine is really stupid. The word “Apartheid” is specific to the South African situation, and it rings false to try to extend that to ANY other situation.

    What about what went on in the South? Wasn’t that apartheid? I’ve always understood “apartheid” to be keeping the races apart, period. Am I incorrect in my assumption?

  • zingzing

    who said “apartheid” is specific to south africa? that’s news to me…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    You wouldn’t want it on your conscience, Ruvy, starting World War III.

    Nothing I do or say will start a world war, Roger; that was foretold by Zechariah and Ezekiel, long before I was even imagined. It was foretold even in the Torah, the prophecy of Bila’am. Zechariah warns of a nuclear conflagration consuming those who hate G-d. [Zechariah 14:12] Jewish sages, working from these prophecies and others came up with the warning that two thirds of the world’s population will die when G-d redeems the world – and nine tenths of the Children of Israel will also die.

    Evil prophecies can be averted through repentance, of course, but repentance requires belief. Here, Roger, I refer you to Christopher Rose, Dan Miller, Dave Nalle and our friend Clavos for proof that there is unlikely to be repentance sufficient to avert a terrible prophecy.

    I’m not going to tell them what to believe – that is above my pay grade, so to speak. G-d’s ways are not my ways, and for all I know, they may all survive Redemption. But, they represent only the tiniest tip of a huge iceberg on non-believers in the world.

    Mind you, Roger, I’m not under the assumption that I will survive the Redemption. But I am mandated to have faith that I will, and to behave accordingly.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    who said “apartheid” is specific to south africa? that’s news to me…

    Lots of things are news to you, zing.

    Apartheid is Afrikaans, and means skins apart. Its policies, policies designed to protect a ruling while minority in a land where a one-man one-vote system would end white rule, were not specific to South Africa; they were used in Southwest Africa, and Northern and Southern Rhodesia as well before these countries became independent (in Southern Rhodesia’s case before the white régime was replaced).

    Silas, the point here is not that apartheid was good or bad, but its application was to areas where whites, a small minority, wanted to lord it over the non-whites, the vast majority. Segregation in the United States, de jure in the south, and de facto in the rest of the country, was designed to keep minorities down.

    So rich Protestant bigots in the New York suburbs could enforce intgegration on the poor whites in New York City to end the

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    continued from comment #85

    segregation could tell themselves that they were self-righteous. They and Jews trying to shove their reform agendae down everyone’s throat but their own formed the seedbed for what became known as the “new” (nfantile) left that lords it over academe and the media in your country these days.

  • Mark

    What do Israelis call the system of segregation in your country, Ruvy?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Franco,

    Just wanted to thank you for your comment #81.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    What do Israelis call the system of segregation in your country, Ruvy?

    Neither Israelis nor Arabs really regard segregation as abnormal or wrong, Mark. Well, when the western cameras are on them, the Arabs will whine and call it apartheid, but the truth of thre matter is each ethnic group tends to prefer its own neighborhood here.

    What is abnormal here is the “mixed” neighborhood, not the segregated one. So, on the one hand, Arabs whine about an Israeli “apartheid” state, but when Jews move into an Arab neighborhood they scream of Jews trying to “Judaize” that neighborhood. Are you getting the picture? They try to have their cake and eat it at the same time. And milions of custard-heads in the west buy their bullshit.

    I hope you are intelligent enough not to be such a custard-head.

  • http://twitter.com/tolstoyscat Cindy

    Ruvy,

    I meant to respond to #51 earlier. I hadn’t read #49. Sadly, I often skip what you write (when it’s not addressed to me). I’m sorry I skipped that one though.

    I like #49, it explains why I may think you’re a fanatic, but I feel you’re a ‘good’ (whatever that means) person. Not that what I think is very important to you. But I like to make sense at least to myself.

    I am not making a direct comparison between us, but I know what it feels like to have real hatred. Funny though, once it is in you (no matter how much the opposite you were before you nurtured it), it’s not so easy just to throw it off and go back to before you had it. It leaves these relics behind. That’s my experience. I am only a little fish making my way through the ocean and doing my best.

  • Mark

    add to to do list:…compare and contrast SA apartheid and the neo-millet system of the modern middle east (emphasis on Israeli situation)

    however, I do enjoy flan…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    compare and contrast SA apartheid and the neo-millet system of the modern middle east (emphasis on Israeli situation)

    Wrong emphasis, Mark. Try comparing and contrasting SA apartheid to the Lebanese situation. Open war broke out and destroyed a society that was based in confessional representation and the neo-millet system. Tens of thousands died in communal warfare in Lebanon – very different from Israel.

    Ask Dave Nalle for detailed information. This is something he will understand very very well. He grew up in that neighborhood.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Cindy,

    Try reading comment #53 (particularly) and my articles about the Lebanon War and the period immediately afterwards. Go to my writers page here. Once, I was sorta involved in efforts to bring about peace here. I saw an option in early 2006 and did not pursue it aggressively enough. The Lebanon War of 2006 killed those efforts. I do not see any options for peacefully accomplishing what I want to see anymore.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “Lots of things are news to you, zing.”

    that’s true. lots of things are news to you as well, ruvy. glad we got that cleared up…

    “Apartheid is Afrikaans, and means skins apart. Its policies, policies designed to protect a ruling while minority in a land where a one-man one-vote system would end white rule, were not specific to South Africa; ”

    so it’s not specific to south africa. wow. that’s what i said. glad we got that cleared up…

    saying “apartheid” is specific to south africa is like saying “rock n roll” is specific to elvis, or bill haley, or chuck berry… take your pick. the first thing to be called something is not the only thing that that word refers to. it’s just the word that sticks. since the word started appearing in the popular lexicon, it’s been used to describe a great many similar things. that’s the point i was making.

  • Franco

    Ruvy, you’re welcome, but there is no need to thank me, it’s what it is, and it needs to be said.

    I know there will always be need to make posts like #81, and you and I both know way. However I liked very much your comment #49 where you outlined “what you want” instead of “what your enemies want”. Regardless of what you think about those visions being lost to you following Lebanon 2006, those were powerful words and they have caught special attention. Mark made that observation as well as Cindy, and for those who have not made comment, they have been left without protest.

    Is it not possible to express more visions like this while still keeping ones responsible defensive perspectives in tack? Is it not possible with faith, and is faith not also a gift from G-d, until that final day?

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    What do Israelis call the system of segregation in your country, Ruvy?

    Arabicide.

    Now onto racism. Racism, intolerance, whatever you want to call it is prevalent all over the United States. In the South it is Black vs. White. In the Northeast it’s Asian vs. White. In the Midwest it is Latino vs. White. All acros sthis land it’s straight vs. gay. And then in respective Roman Catholic Diocesan areas there are churches separated by nationality and/or race. I’ve pointed out what such case in Northern Rhode Island. There’s another case in Cranston, Rhode Island where two Roman Catholic houses of worship share property borders and sunlight. Those two churches are separated by Irish and Catholic congregations. I’m certain that this practice has been repeated ad nauseum across the country if not around the globe.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Franco,

    Thank you for the kind words.

    Outlining visions for peace is nice, Franco. The key is to make them happen. Pretty words do not matter. Results do.

    The Israeli government is incapable of making any vision for peace happen; the American and European governments would not bring us peace but nightmares of death and massacres; the Arab terrorists certainly do not want peace – they want the stink of Jewish blood to sit over the land until they have killed us off. They have proven their intent day in and day out for the last 80 years.

    I had a tiny opportunity, and I didn’t follow up on it hard enough. For all I know, that might have been some kind of Test from the Almighty. Where all the other roads to success are blocked, the tiniest path must be pursued, and I didn’t push hard enough on that path. I have condemned the Labor Zionists for the blood on their hands, but I have to wonder how much blood might be on my own due to my own lackadaisical efforts.

    The reason I do not like to outline what I want very often is that it means I have to acknowledge – even if only to myself – how I’ve failed in my own efforts to get what I want. Where there is opportunity, there is also responsibility, Franco. “Where there is no man, try to be that man.” This too, is part of the burden of the Torah. And I was not that man.

    So, it’s much easier to outline how I think events will occur while keeping my desires out of them.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I don’t know about that, Ruvy. The first calls for a kind of prophesying, doesn’t it? On that other hand, you should be moved by and work on what you think is right. Some dreams can come true and not all are pipe dreams.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “I had a tiny opportunity, and I didn’t follow up on it hard enough. For all I know, that might have been some kind of Test from the Almighty. Where all the other roads to success are blocked, the tiniest path must be pursued, and I didn’t push hard enough on that path.”

    i would bet that a large majority of the arabs surrounding you have the same wish that you talk of here: to live in security and peace. it’s just that the hardliners, terrorists and guns are speaking louder. you have the whole world backing you if you actually want to try and see this vision realized.

    “So, it’s much easier to outline how I think events will occur while keeping my desires out of them.”

    then you will never achieve your desires.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Good point, zing. That’s what I was getting at.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    And can you imagine? Even Cindy lauded him for his #49. What is the world coming to?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    On that other hand, you should be moved by and work on what you think is right.

    That is the point, Roger. I was moved, and I worked on what I thought was right – but I didn’t work hard enough!

    You know Mark Schannon, don’t you? He writes funny articles here and occasionally comments on other articles.

    Well, what he does for a living is act as a crisis manager. Between January and June of 2006 I had some kind of opportunity to do something other than gab away here at this web site. I sorta did it – but not enough. Enough would have been laying out the facts and the opportunities to a sympathetic crisis manager, and seeing if I could convince him to come over here for a stint – for a fee of course. But I wasn’t paying sufficient attention; I wasn’t reading his web-site carefully enough. I didn’t try hard enough!!

    If I had managed something like that, and if I’d had something going in the spring of 2006, then when war broke out in June of that year the opportunity might have been salvageable. It’s not a matter of prophesy, it is a matter of “doing the good deed at hand”.

    The good deed is no longer “at hand” – at least not that I see now. I may have to examine the facts on the ground more thoroughly, though. I don’t really have the right to dismiss all this out of hand.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I don’t understand the details, but it’s interesting what you’re saying. I don’t have the context. How could one person, like Mark, for example, or you, make that kind of difference?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I can’t detail the contest here. This is not the apporpriate forum for it. But history is filled with instances when the actions of one individual have been decisive – and these individusals have not been “great historical figures” in the sense that you or I would view them – they have been figures behind the scenes.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I understand.

  • Franco

    Ruvy,

    Something I get mired into thinking I have to achieve something great, and it can cause me to see the little stuff as far less important and so it can fall through cracks. Ironically, more often then not, this little stuff turns out to be actually more important then the big stuff.

    I am wondering if this is not what has happened to you in loosing your will to keep working your — rapidly becoming famous — Ruvy’s Field of Dreams.vision post #49.

    For example. Do you have any Arab Muslim friends? Do you ever do anything together like dinner at each other’s house, or go places together. Or would either of you feel defiled somehow? I mean, I love ice-cold beer and spicy Mexican pork carnitas, so I know I would defile both of you, but we are not taking about my house, and if we were, I would not have to serve that anyway.

    In your post #49 item #3, you stated you want to be able to cultivate the land in peace with them, side by side as neighbors should.

    What is wrong with putting that visions onto reality right were you stand right now? What about stating a real workable garden with an Arab and work it together and make it something that really produces some fine vegetables. Work together on it and enjoy it together. Let the young Jewish and Arab children living in the area take note and see this in action. Let those young people who ask to be a part of it work there, let them eat the food grown there. Have the excess given to the needy.

    After you and your Arab friend have passed on, those young people will remember what they saw and were part of, and some of them will have the courage to say why not!

    Maybe for you and I Ruvy — “being the man” — has to do more with the little things that are right around us everyday, even though we may never feel we did all that much, or received any acclaim, or maybe even got ridicule for it. Is it not G-d’s approval that we are supposed to seek anyway? Would G-d not like your vision expressed like this?

    If having lived your vision, even in this small way, and then left the world with children (yours or theirs) with the courage to say “why not”, is that not everything, compared to the nothing of never living your vision at all?

    Ruvy’s Field of Dreams. If you build it, I will come if invited to dinner to meet you and your Arab friend, and all the families – so long as you show me where I can get an ice-cold beer after.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    What is wrong with putting that vision into reality right were you stand right now? What about stating a real workable garden with an Arab and work it together and make it something that really produces some fine vegetables. Work together on it and enjoy it together. Let the young Jewish and Arab children living in the area take note and see this in action. Let those young people who ask to be a part of it work there, let them eat the food grown there. Have the excess given to the needy.

    If it were only that easy! It’s a great idea, Franco, and great ideas should not be discarded, so I won’t. But even going into Sinjel for a Jew can be a life threatening experience. Arabs have made war and death a very close thing in Samaria. In addition, Sinjel is in Area B of Judea and Samaria, and it is illegal for Israeli civilians to enter Area B (under PA Arab administration) without written permission from the IDF. Ma’alé Levoná, like all the other Israeli towns is in Area C, under Israeli military rule. All this is the result of the “Oslo Death Accords” – the alleged “peace process”.

    One morning I had to go to P’sagót with one of my sons for some bureaucratic meeting. The regional government offices are in P’sagót. When we were done there, we wanted to go home to Ma’alé Levoná – but there were no buses going there for quite a while. We tramped a ride to Ma’avár Mikhmásh – where buses stop and people wait for tramps to other villages and towns. So we tramped a ride to ‘Ofrá some kilometers north, hoping to tramp a ride to Ma’alé Levoná which is still north of there. But no rides were going to Ma’alé Levoná, which is at the top of a hill, a several kilometer walk from the valley where highway 60 snakes through Samaria.

    So I made a bold decision, which my kids still think was crazy.

    There are two roads leading up Levoná. The main one passes Sinjel and quite a number of Arab homes. The back one passes a few fields cultivated by Arabs. I reasoned that two unarmed Jews could make a tempting target for a crowd of Arabs, but that two unarmewd Jews would not be a target for a nearly empty road where one or two Arabs were working a field.

    I tramped a ride to the back road leading up Levoná. It was a spring day, but mid-day is hot here, even in spring. The road is pretty in spring, with greenery all around. We started to walk.

    I had to keep reassuring my son that if we walked as if we belonged to the road, the Arabs that we met would not be hostile to us. As we walked, we saw an old woman praying the noon nawaz in a field. When she was done, she got up and continued on her tasks. We saw a guy leading a donkey to a tree with a two-litre bottle of water slung over his shoulder. He said “hi!” to us, smiling, and we responded. We kept going, as the road ascended at a sharper angle. We saw two guys working a garden. They both said “hi”, also smiling. I waved back (my son was nervous – I had to keep reminding him that people, like animals, can smell fear).

    After a while, I stopped. The ascent was getting hard for me – I’m out of shape because of a heart attack and not having exercised sufficiently. I was going to wait for a few minutes, and then continue onwards. While I was waiting, a vehicle came up the road with yellow Israeli plates. We flagged them down. They were going up to Ma’alé Levoná. There was no choice to be made between a hard climb in the sun, one that entails more risks than mere sun-stroke, and a 10 minute ride up the hill in a car. So we rode the rest of the way up the hill while two Israeli kids, students at the pre-army institute in Ma’alé Levoná, berated us for being nuts in the the head.

    If you ever do get out here, all you got to do is let me know. I’ll make sure there is a cold beer for you.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    While you look at (or ignore) my dreams of peace, a terrorist attack occured outside of Ma’alé Levoná just minutes ago. My son (en route home) called me up to ask me if I had heard of a terror shooting outside of the village, a shooting that took place near the village. I have a feeling I know who was the target. About 15 minutes ago, just moments after the shooting occurred, I got a phone call by mistake asking for someone in the village whose name is listed just above mine on the phone register. The caller was very upset.

    According to Arutz Sheva the driver was injured by shards of glass.

  • Franco

    Ruvy,

    I am back at my house getting a quick bit to eat and checked in. I am not ignoring you, I’ve got a lot to do over at the shop and have to get back there. I read your first post and then this second one. I want to respond to both in better detail but that will have to wait unit tonight. But for now………..

    Terrorist Attack in Maaleh Levona (IsraelNN.com) – Terrorists opened fire on an Israeli car as it drove up to the entrance of Maaleh Levona. The driver was injured by shards of glass from the shots and received treatment on the scene.

    Is this the same road you and your son tramped a ride to, the same back road where you flagged down the vehicle on the road with yellow Israeli plates leading up Levona? Or is there another road to the entrance of Levona?

    “I have a feeling I know who was the target.”

    Who do you think it was and why?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    To answer your questions, Franco.

    I tramped with my son on Highway 60 to the back road of Levoná – the one with the fewer Arabs that posed a smaller risk. This was the road that he and I began ascending that spring day. The shooting that took place took place on the main road up Levoná – the one that passes Sinjel, the one I eschewed as too risky.

    The people who were wounded were visitors to the village, not residents. But I suspect they were visiting a family whose name is near mine on the regster of names listed in the village, which is why I think I got the mistaken phone call I did.

    I have a brief article in pending on this attack.

  • Franco

    Ruvy,

    Thanks for the update on the road situation and terrorist attack. I found the following pictures on the Internet of your area, perhaps you will recognize them.

    Hwy 60
    Surrounding Valley

    As far as your post #107 goes, it dose not appear to be too like for Ruvy’s Field of Dreams, at least without G-d’s help. But, it is interesting that……………….

    “We saw a guy leading a donkey to a tree with a two-litre bottle of water slung over his shoulder. He said “hi!” to us, smiling, and we responded. We kept going, as the road ascended at a sharper angle. We saw two guys working a garden. They both said “hi”, also smiling. I waved back (my son was nervous – I had to keep reminding him that people, like animals, can smell fear).”

    Are you 100% sure they did not know you and your son were Jewish?

    Anyway Ruvy, you have to be the best judge of your situation. But it is always good to ask G-d about the idea and see what happens around you in the coming days, weeks and months. An opportunity may present itself.

    Do you have any Arab (Muslim) friends? Or maybe social acquaintances that are civil?

  • Ruvy

    Are you 100% sure they did not know you and your son were Jewish?

    They said hi in Hebrew, Franco – shalom! – to two guys walking with skullcaps on their heads and long strands of strings flowing from shirts – (tzitziót k’tanót). They’s be dumb idiots not to know we were Jews!

  • Franco

    Ruvy,

    They’s be dumb idiots not to know we were Jews!

    OK let me get this straight. Two Arab Muslum guys working a garden take the time to call out hello and smile at you. Is this what we are taking about?

    And they were Arab Muslims?

    Do you think their taking the time to call out hello and smile at you was sincer?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    The point, Franco, is that they were not shooting at us, or throwing rocks. We were two guys walking on a rural road, and they called out “hello”. The point was to teach my son that Arabs need not necessarily kill us, nor try to kill us.

    It’s called taking a risk for peace – though my purpose that day was not davka peace, but getting home.

    I have Arab friends and acquaintances – but not here in the neighborhood. One of the Arabs who drives for Egged, sent his regards home to me via my son last night.

  • Franco

    Good morning Ruvy,

    Look, I get a sense that your maybe avoiding where I’m going with this, so I don’t what to push it. But I got to as least say this much with a recap-a-roo.

    I want to be able to cultivate the land in peace with them, side by side as neighbors should.

    We saw two guys working a garden. They both said “hi”, also smiling. (Saying “shalom” no less.)

    Get yourself a used moped or vespa, or whatever, put on some goggles and get your ass down there.

    Call up your Arab friend who drives for Egged, and ask him what he thinks about it, and your dream.

    If young David hand not exercised his faith and stepped up that day with his sling, Israel would have been denined him as its Greatest King. And we sure are not talking about anything like that here, because Goliath wasn’t tending garden and smiling and saying hello.

    Did you ever hear this one Ruvy?

    There was this guy living on a river, and one day it began to rain and rain and the river started to rise. This guy had a strong faith in G-d, and so he prayed for G-d to keep him safe and save him from the rising waters.

    Soon a boat came by and the captain smiled and calls out to the guy. But the guy was unsure of getting into the boat in all the raging water, so he waved the boat on by keeping his faith in the Lord. Soon another boat came by, the captain smiled and calls out, and the guy waived that boat on too. Then a third boat came by, and the guy did the same thing again. Finally the water got so high that it swept the guy and his house into the river and he was drowned.

    When he came to the gates of heaven and asked why G-d had abandoned him, the Lord replied. I know your heart, and that it is good, and I had work for you to do for me, and I heard your prayers and I sent boats for you three times.

    OK, I’ll shut up now.

    Shalom.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Look, I get a sense that your maybe avoiding where I’m going with this

    Franco, go take a look at comment #110. There was an attempted murder outside my village last night that was based on terrorism. Arabs from the al-Aqsa Brigade attempted to kill Jews. It’s not all as simple as it looks. Just because a fellow smiles at you, doesn’t mean he wants you for a friend.

    As I told you, your idea is a good idea; but it requires some research. Relationships between Jews and Arabs have deteriorated due to two rebellions and continuous incitement by the PA to murder off Jews.

    So, one needs to know who one is talking to, and to know some of the answers to the questions BEFORE asking them.

  • Franco

    It’s not all as simple as it looks. Just because a fellow smiles at you, doesn’t mean he wants you for a friend.

    I was not born yesterday Ruvy. Maybe he was smiling and trying to be nice because he was scared of you and did not want to look it, for the same reasons you didn’t. I don’t know, but neither do you.

    As I said from the get go on this, you know best on this one, but I aslo said – “Is it not possible to express more visions like this while still keeping ones responsible defensive perspectives in tack? Is it not possible with faith, and is faith not also a gift from G-d, until that final day?”

  • Franco

    Ruvy,

    OK, I will keep hope for your dream.

    Now I have been wanting to ask you about something else entirely. Here is an opinion pieces written July 2, 2009 by a Mohammed J. Herzallah, who is the former president of the Harvard Palestine Solidarity Movement.

    It’s about “Why Obama should fire General Dayton” He states in part……….

    The US-sponsored “security coordination” program headed by Lt. Gen. Keith Dayton, which was launched by the Bush Administration in 2005 to allegedly help the Palestinians reform their security services, has done more harm than good. US President Barack Obama would do well to fire Dayton and put an end to US intrusion into internal Palestinian affairs.

    He covers much in this faily short opinion piece about Dayton’s programs and what has been going on and accomplished so far, which there appears to be a lot, and it also appears to be advancing closer to its intended goals.

    Do you agree with Mohammed J. Herzallah, or disagree, and why. Or what other insight can you add.

    Please be as specific to his opinion piece as you can. I am trying to understand this specific issue in greater scope, and need all the perspective I can get.

    Why Obama should fire General Dayton

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Franco,

    The writer mirrors my viewpoints in many ways. I no longer recall how many times I have called for an end to American intervention in Israeli internal affairs, and this writer calls for the end of Amrican intervention in Arab internal affairs.

    I have pointed out many times that both Israel and America wanted to see el-FataH dominating Arab affirs here, and this man says nearly the exact same thing. His reasons may be different, but he comes to the same conlusions.

    What Herzallah misses is the motive behind the actions to destabilize Hamas and secure el-Fatah under one man’s strong control.

    For the corrupt Israeli leadership, the gain is to get another Arafat, a fellow with whom to cut profitable deals that will impoverish Arabs and Israelis alike. You can bet that if Israeli middlemen – under the table – secure financing for el-FataH, there will be some bakshish in it for them as well. This is the Middle East, after all.

    “With money you get honey.”

    For America, the gain is to get a single fellow under their own thumb, answerable to American trained and ultimately controlled soldiers. So this Dahlan fellow whould be imprisoned by an American-led praetorian guard, a latter day version of Glubb Pasha of the Arab Legion.

    The Obama administration benefits from this as well as the Bush administration did, and from the point of view of creating a program that was useful beyond his own administration, Bush is to be credited.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Now it may seem that herzallah and i could come to some agreements based on our common belief that America should get out of the Middle East. But bear in mind his goals and mine. At this point, they are incompatible.

    Nevertheless, it would be worthwhile at least talking with this man. One never knows….

  • Baronius

    I just noticed that the picture accompanying this article is of the Dome of the Rock. Oddly appropriate. We can talk about American and Israeli policies all we want, but there’s this huge thing in the middle that we’re ignoring.

  • Franco

    Ruvy,

    Have you written about your opinion on a two state settlement? If so where can I find it, and if not, what is it.

  • Franco

    Baronius

    there’s this huge thing in the middle that we’re ignoring.

    Your right, we are, care to take a shot?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Read comment #49 again, Franco.

  • Franco

    Read comment #49 again, Franco.

    OK Ruvy, sorry that was not fully clear to me before. i guess I was looking more for your arugment againt it. But I can read between the lines of what you wrote in #49

  • http://www.islamicsolutions.com/ Liza18

    please check out Islamic Solutions.