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A Solution to Illegal Immigration?

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The immigration debate has exposed a sore issue on all sides. Much of the country is upset that the government is doing nothing about illegal immigration and is simply proposing to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants in lieu of enforcing the laws. The illegal immigrants believe this to be a racist attack designed to purge the country of Hispanics. Both sides have a point but there still needs to be a solution before the issue becomes too contentious.

The immigration enforcement position

Those who favor immigration enforcement argue that these people entered the country illegally and should not be rewarded for breaking the law. They state that the porous border makes it easy for the enemies of the United States to enter the country and undermine us from within. There is the argument that illegal immigrants inflate the welfare rolls, causing taxpayers to pay for people who sneak across the border. Lastly, the situation has led to open armed conflict on the border with Mexico.

The immigrants’ position

Living in poverty with no hope of a better life for oneself or one’s children isn’t a fun thing. If you lived in Mexico and saw the prosperity in the US you’d want to come here too. With the Mexican government and the United States government making it so easy to come here it hardly seems like it is really illegal. Companies are ready and willing to not only hire you, but help you “doctor” the paperwork so it appears legit. If your child is born in the US they’ll automatically have US citizenship.

It’s win-win.

Analysis

This problem has been caused by the government of the United States not only spending decades not enforcing the law but broadcasting that we have no intention of enforcing the law. When Mexico started producing pamphlets on how to sneak across the border, our government did nothing. While it is tempting to blame the illegal immigrants, we can hardly blame them for wanting a better life, being told by their government they can come to the US for a good life, and the US saying it won’t enforce the laws. Making it a felony to be an illegal immigrant starts to get dangerously close to an ex post facto kind of situation.

One could make the argument that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but I’d like to take this opportunity to point to this law. In Illinois, premarital sex is illegal. No one expects the government to enforce this law and it hasn’t for a good long time now. If one day they decided to break up the shack-up fest at the nearest meat market people would cry foul. Skipping past the constitutional considerations, something is fundamentally unfair about telling people you aren’t going to enforce a criminal statute for decades and then suddenly changing your mind.

A government has the right to and ought to regulate the flow of immigration to that level which is most beneficial to the economy. It has a right to not take another country’s poor to only become permanent beneficiaries of the welfare system. Lastly, the transparent lack of enforcement on the border has only emboldened criminal elements to operate there with impunity.

Solution

All immigrants would be required to register with the government and undergo some simple tests including a background check. If they have caused no problems here, they will be required to briefly return home, check-in, and then be allowed to return.

The number of legal immigrants we give visas to should be greatly increased and the process to get here simplified to those steps that are necessary to maintain security. The easier it is for legitimate people to get here (while keeping the bad guys out) will prevent the “black market” immigrant transport problem we have now.

When they return they’ll be required to use legitimate information for any job they have and provide that information to the government. The situation of forty million people using the social security number of 000-00-0000 needs to end.

They’ll have very limited access to welfare programs. In short, they’ll be expected to support themselves like every other immigrant who comes here legally has to do. We should not allow the government of Mexico to treat the US as if it were responsible for its own poverty problem and welfare programs. If Mexico insists on the US providing social services for it, then it is time we consider whether Mexico should become the 51st state.

Because the government has shown that it cannot be trusted to properly enforce the laws, a “qui tam” provision must be included that allows private citizens to sue on behalf of the government those employers who employ illegal immigrants. These laws have worked well in cases of government fraud and Medicare fraud, and this would allow interested private parties to do the enforcing with the help of a court. Take away the jobs and a large incentive to sneak across the border goes away.

Two tracks of legal immigration should be adopted, an irrevocable path to citizenship and a guest worker program. Guest workers will be allowed to work for 10 years and have no eligibility for welfare. The path to citizenship will require a renunciation of Mexican (or other relevant nation’s) citizenship and classes in English will be provided. Guest workers cannot be hired if there are willing and capable legal residents or citizens applying to do the work.

Congressional seats will be apportioned by the number of legal residents in the state and not merely the number of people in the state. Having a high proportion of illegal immigrants should not afford a state with extra House seats.

Any illegal immigrants captured or otherwise discovered in the United State will be permanently banned from legal immigration.

A border wall will be constructed to eliminate the flow of people into the United States in an undocumented fashion.

Summary

This should suffice in getting all the legitimate workers documented, isolate the criminal element as they would not likely walk into a government office to get fingerprinted, and create a regime that allows for enforcement (even when government officials want to weasel out). It will stem the incentives that cause people to sneak across the border and the incentives to hire such people. It will also allow for the compassion and fairness of liberal immigration that has been beneficial to our society. Lastly, it will emphasize assimilation by requiring a permanent irrevocable choice to become a US citizen. It is a difficult issue to arrive at a compromise on because of the failure of the government, which made this the huge issue it has become.

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About John Bambenek

John Bambenek is a political activist and computer security expert. He has his own company Bambenek Consulting in Champaign, IL that specializes in digital forensics and computer security investigations.
  • Nancy

    This still isn’t going to work, because aside from the slap on the wrist of “banning” someone from legal immigration if they’re caught here illegally, there is no penalty & there is still no plan for active, meaningful enforcement. Now, if we started billing Mexico for services to illegals, cost of repatriations, etc. & freezing Mexican assets to recover the costs should Mexico refuse to pay, that might give Mexico an incentive to start fixing their own house economically & socially instead of just throwing all their trash into our yard.

  • gonzo marx

    well John..you miss the muc simpler “demand” side Soloution…

    enforce the Laws that Reagan put on the books, and fine ALL the employers who hire illegal aliens

    how about making the fine the same as the FCC one for Janet Jackson’s bobbie….$500,000 an incident

    if no on will hire them, they will stop coming

    much cheaper, requires NO new Law…and penalizes those utilizing “slave labor”

    that’s the Answer ya get by shaving with Occam’s Razor…

    Excelsior!

  • Guppusmaximus

    I agree with Nancy because I love how in all these debates there is never any mention of how the Mexican Government should take part ownership of this problem.

    I also agree with gonzo..We should fine the f*ck out of these cheap bastards that hire illegal immigrants. Make them pay for the drug testing and other resources that it takes to hire a qualified Man/Woman for the job!!

    Like I have always said that it’s a bunch of B.S. that Americans wouldn’t do the jobs that these immigrants take. We would if these slave drivers would actually pay the Americans what they are worth!!

  • Georgio

    Even though I don’t agree with all of your solutions I give you credit for being open minded as opposed to those who just want to deport them..Personally I would favor them becoming the 51st state,,

  • gonzo marx

    i like it!!

    let’s start Annexxing…Mexico, Peurto Rico…any in the western hemisphere that want it

    a MUCH better solution in many ways

    THEN enforce the shit out of the laws against hiring illegals

    good times for all involved

    Excelsior!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    where would we put the star?

  • http://chantalstone.blogspot.com chantal stone

    if Mexico becomes a state, our flag would look weird.

    …not a good idea.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    The reason I don’t talk about the laws already on the books is because the government simply won’t enforce them and have lost any trust that they ever will. That’s why the qui tam provision is key. No longer do people have to wait for the government to do the enforcing, private citizens can litigate for civil penalties on behalf of the government. No jobs, no incentives.

    As far as Mexico, fine them for what? Sure, I suppose we could take those 10 billion barrels of oil they just found but short of that it isn’t like they have much. I just couldn’t visualize how that would work.

    As far as annexing Mexico, to be strictly honest I doubt we’d do it with them as just one state, take their provinces and make each a state. As long as they vote Republican I’m all for them having as many Senate seats as possible.

    That last part was a joke.

  • Georgio

    I am thrilled to have Gonzo on my side ..wonder what Nancy thinks ummmmm…
    How could the Mexicans ever become Republicans ..They are a poor ppl and most ppl know the Rs hate poor ppl..

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    allow interested private parties to do the enforcing

    Qui tam? We already have interested private parties trying to assist with enforcement. They’re called The Minutemen. You can be sure the ACLU, multi-culturalists, and open border advocates will all be whining about Vigilante-ism (which, after all, just means “being vigilant”). I love it!

  • gonzo marx

    Richard, that depends on whether those “minutemen” stay on this side of the Law…

    dangerous precedent

    me..i think it’s more the actual job of the National Guard…

    oh wait…they are kinda busy right now…

    again , it all fall s under “prior planning prevents piss poor performance”

    which SHOULD be tattoo’d backwards on every President’s forehead before he takes the Oath of office…

    but i digress…

    Excelsior!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    gonzo – you missed one…proper…as in prior proper planning prevents piss poor performance…’cause after all…you can prior plan…but if the plans ain’t proper….

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    gonzo: that depends on whether those “minutemen” stay on this side of the Law…
    dangerous precedent

    I haven’t heard of any illegal activity. They are not there to assist with the apprehension part of enforcement, only observation and reporting – exactly the same as with John’s qui tam proposal, where private citizens will only be reporting illegal activity, not serving warrants, making arrests, etc.

    I surely hope that you do not have a double standard whereby you both:

    a) regard it as a “dangerous precedent” to have private citizens looking for illegal activity on the part of non-citizen aliens; and

    b) do not regard it as a “dangerous precedent” to have private citizens looking for illegal activity on the part of other fellow citizens!

  • Arch Conservative

    The Minutemen have this nation’s best interests at heart not the All Communist Lawyers Union.

    It is fast approaching the point where vigilatism may be the best solution.

    If those who are entrusted to make and enforce the laws of this nation refuse to do so, then what else are we left with?

  • gonzo marx

    well Richard, i assure you i intend no such double standard…

    my concern is that many of those Minutemen are armed, as are most of the “coyote” types running the illegals across the border

    make more sense?

    and Bing…i’m sure former Representative Bob Barr and other conservatives working for the ACLU will be interested to know you class them as “communists”

    “free your Mind, and the rest will follow”

    Excelsior!

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Armed **legally**. That’s why they are operating in states that allow that like Arizona.

    But how’s this for a compromise, for every immigrant we nationalize we deport a politician.

  • Arch Conservative

    Only if they are US Senators and we cap it at 100 John.

  • yesenia

    You know what mexican imigrants aren’t the only ones that cross the borders!! You guys are all making it seem like if it was there fault!! For reals be real!! The americans WOULD NOT work in the fields!! And if u say u would then why dont u get ur butts over there? Also why dont u get in there position and imagine how you would feel if everyone descriminated you for being and immigrant!! They should just give out in and out permits for a certain period of time. Then all this would be over!!

  • Priscilla

    I agree with Yesenia…. Not all Mexicans are Immigrants. And if all of yous and bush and everyone that don’t want Mexicans here well just remember that Mexicans are out their on the war too fighting for this country so if yous don’t want them here well then bring all the Mexicans back over here and for them to go home and yous to go and fight for
    “your Country” because with out us all yous ppl wouldn’t have all the things that yous have now!!

  • Bliffle

    A friend sent me this:

    Dear President Bush:

    I’m about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family,
    and I would like to ask you to assist me. I’m going to walk across
    the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few
    arrangements. I know you can help with this.

    I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports,
    immigration quotas and laws. I’m sure they handle those things the
    same way you do here.

    So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that
    I’m on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting
    the following:

    1. Free medical care for my entire family.

    2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
    need, whether I use them or not.

    3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

    4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

    5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

    6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the
    flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

    7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and
    lunch.

    8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy
    access to government services.

    9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won’t make any
    effort to learn local traffic laws.

    10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the
    memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all
    police officers speak English.

    11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals
    on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not
    want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

    12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes,
    and don’t enforce any labor laws or! tax law s.

    13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice
    and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might
    place on the economy.

    I know this is an easy request because you already do all these
    things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am
    sure that Pres. Fox won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him
    nicely.

    However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail
    hunting with your V.P.

    Thank you so much for your kind help.

    Sincerely,

  • Arch Conservative

    Well now I have seen it all………..

    In the past several days I have seen views expressed by reliable lefties like Bliffle, Nancy, Natalie, and I think even Gonzo that have concurred with my own views regarding America’s ILLEGAL ALIEN problem while at the same time seeing President Bush, whom I voted for, and many GOP congressmen putting forth a bullshit amnesty program and making more bullshit arguments about the value of ILLEGAL ALIENS to the American society.

    I never thought I’d see the day when I couldn’t tell the difference between Bill Frist and that morbidly obese, hypocritical, elitist, bastard, Ted “the hero of chappaqiddac” Kennedy. It makes my skin crawl.

    The vast majority of poloticians on both sides of the aisle have laid down and prayed at the altar of ultra hardcore political correctness for fear of being labelled a racist or bigot. They have succumbed to the fear of civil unrest threatened by the protesting in the streets by thousands of ILLEGAL ALIENS.

    The only solution is for people like myself and Bliffle who would normally not cooperate in any venture together to band togather as a single unified voice to stand up to the stooges from both parties in Congress and say we will no longer stand for this an if you don’t do something about ti we will kick you out of office.

  • Nancy

    I already sent my Senators & congessmaggot emails to the effect that if they didn’t do something – and by that I DON’T mean amnesty – they should not bother to return after this, their most recent & egregious “vacation” upcoming. I also reminded them they are supposed to be upholding existing law & looking out for the interests of US citizens – NOT a pack, no matter how numerous, demanding, or disruptive – of howling illegals.

    And frankly, I’m not surprised by Bush’s stance; he’s always been an enemy of labor & a stooge of big business, which depend on slave labor & breaking down the rights & advances of working stiffs everywhere in favor of the plutocracy.

    Sometimes issues CAN create some straaaaaange bedfellows, can’t it?

  • Bliffle

    AC:

    I think your perplexity is caused by your persistent attempts to demonize people by first labeling them as something you dislike, then denouncing them, thinking that all observers will follow your lead. Alas, most of the people hereabouts on BC are too independent to be labeled, and even if you could successfully label them, almost no one herein would follow YOUR lead.

    Try to think a little more outside of easy labels, because labeling is not the point.

  • Arch Conservative

    Bliffle…….

    Most people, including BC posters genrally fall on one side of the sociopolitical spectrum with regard to the majority of the issues of the day.

    If I am labellling people on here it is because of the repeated views that they have put forth which would cause any reasonable person to say that a specific label is fitting.

  • gonzo marx

    soOOooOOOooo…fiscally conservative, hawking against illegal immigrants, wanting the Rule of Law to be enforced, advocating a tax code that enhances the middle class and hits rich dead folks , desiring our principle of both “provide for the common defense” as well as “promote the general welfare”….defending the 4th Amendment against warrantless eavesdropping and searches, desire for Due Process for ALL Citizens, firm advocacy of “checks and balances”….

    all that….how do ya label lil ole me?

    heh

    Excelsior!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    a strange dude with a good sense of humor and a very interesting writing style…

    Oh wait, you meant your politics? AS far as politics go…I’d label you….gonzo!

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    I find it fascinating that anyone who opposes this open borders de facto policy is a racist. I very clearly say I think we should greatly expland legal immigration. I wouldn’t cry one bit if we brough back something like Ellis Island. The problem with illegal immigration is it stands it that the criminal element is free to exploit those who want to get here and work for noble reasons. To end the practice of the de facto slave trade (or serf trade I suppose) we should tightly regulate but liberally allow people in. Let them come in as documented aliens so that their conditions see the light of day and abuses get known as opposed to employers or smugglers holding the threat of deportation over their heads to silence legitimate complaints.

  • Nancy

    What I find astounding is that both current political parties are willing to alienate most of the rest of their constitutents/voting blocks in order to suck up to Latinos, legal or illegal. In their mad rush to snare Latinos of all stripes as party loyalists, they seem willing to throw overboard everybody else, including blacks, who are the ones with the most to lose from the burgeoning Hispanic voting block. I guess both parties figure there’s nowhere else for non-Latinos to go except to them. I wish just for its own sake someone would come up with a credible third party that would give the lie to that, & shake BOTH current parties to their damned foundations. Perot could have done it if he hadn’t chickened out. Other third-parties such as the libertarian, greens, etc. are too fractured, too obscure, or headed by nutcases like Lyndon LaRouche the Perenniel President.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Is it that surprising? Would most serious leftist or rightists vote for the other party on this? They’re competing for 12 million votes and know full well their base is going to be secure.

  • Dave Nalle

    All that really matters here is what’s best for the US, its citizens and its economy.

    On those issues there’s no question that a relatively liberal policy in dealing with illegal immigration is the best course to take.

    A fine and the opportunity to immigrate legally is the perfect solution for our current illegal population. Get them out of the underground and into a process whereby they can become citizens or guest workers who will eventually return to Mexico.

    We need the labor, we need the new blood, and it’s short sighted to take needlessly punitive measures when we’re the ones who will suffer for it.

    Couple this with real border enforcement for security reasons as well as controlling immigration and you have a sensible solution to the problem – and that’s exactly what they seem to be doing in the Senate now.

    Dave

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    On those issues there’s no question that a relatively liberal policy in dealing with illegal immigration is the best course to take.

    I, and most other Americans, question it.

    We need the labor

    We don’t need artifically cheap imported labor. We need jobs paying decent wages for Americans.

    we need the new blood

    Oh, so now more new imported Mexican blood is better than the new blood of new generations of American children – children who are and will be the offspring of every race and ethnicity on earth, including LEGAL Mexican Americans!

    it’s short sighted to take needlessly punitive measures when we’re the ones who will suffer for it.

    It’s short-sighted to encourage law-breaking by rewarding people for breaking the law, instead of punishing them, not by a slap on the wrist fine, but by the punishment which fits the crime, viz. being deported and given one last chance to try and immigrate legally.

    Couple this with real border enforcement for security reasons as well as controlling immigration

    If Bush has refused so far to implement real border enforcement, he can be expected to continue to slack off on this, in spite of any NEW congressionally-mandated emphasis.

    And if Mexicans know that the reward for coming here illegally is that ultimately there will be ANOTHER amnesty waiting down the road for them (which will only become easier and more certain when their ranks are DOUBLE or TRIPLE or QAUDRUPLE what they are today, then they will continue to sneak over, around, and under regardless of the predictably half-hearted enforcement measures that can be anticipated from our current big-business friendly administration.

  • Arch Conservative

    We need legal immigration in which immigrants are

    1. Assigned ssn’s and made to be financially accountable for all welfare, healthcare, and taxations concerns

    2. Required to speak read and write english and not catered to in thier native tongue

    3. Required to otherwise assimilate intot American society with respect for our culture and traditions and realize that these outweigh concerns as to thier own culture and traditions

    4. Required to obey all laws, local, state and federal, and be held accountable if they do not

    5. We also need to have Congress amend the Constitution to allow the military to police our borders.

    6. We need a president who won’t kiss Mexico’s ass.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    [illegal aliens should be] required to obey all laws, local, state and federal, and be held accountable if they do not

    They didn’t care about obeying the immigration law that would have prevented them from coming in. What makes anyone think they will care about obeying NEW immigration laws that could result in getting them kicked out?

    They are part of an underground support system that would make it harder to find an illegal alien who wanted to remain incognito, than it is to find Osama bin Laden in the radical Islamic territory of northern Pakistan!

    Not only are there sheer physical obstacles to locating them, but they have an additional layer of bullshit legal protection. And economically, it would cost American taxpayers a fortune to have the judicial system proceed against an illegal alien, who probably could not be cleared for deportation for months or years after being identified.

    The only solution is an air-tight border to positively prevent any further waves, and a long, long process of trying to get rid of those already here. In addition there needs to be a RETROACTIVE end to the insane policy of granting automatic citizenship to children of alien parents.

  • jackson b

    Question?
    An illegal works in Texas for 6 years, he has a bad number, but his employer takes out ss, med, and withholding. The government says to be legal he has to pay back taxes ( this is pure idiocy to believe most will pay it) so, he makes $24,000.00 a year has a wife and 5 children. His withholding for taxes are $340.00…medicare is approx. $345.00 and social security is $1475.00. Now being the good illegal alien he files all these past returns…now does the government reward him with earned income payments of approx $4000.00 per year for the last 6 years and gives him a bonus of a tidy $24,000.00. I will bet my last dollar that there will be a loophole that will allow this. You won’t be able to prove that his wife works for someone under a different name from hers. They want citizenship, but they want to make sure they can still apply for free medical care under chips, free lunches, etc. Oh did I mention that the last child was born with a cleft pallet and has had multiple surgeries at the taxpayer expense. I have sympathy for the child, but would he get the same care in Mexico that he gets for free at Children’s Medical in Dallas. If you mention anything about the parents working to social services, they just say that they have no way to verify, because the parents don’t have social security numbers and that it really doesn’t matter, because the children were born over here and are American citizens. WHAT A COUNTRY!!!

  • Arch Conservative

    Good point Jackson.

    Maybe it’s time for a little vigilant justice.

    Maybe if legal American citizens decided to form secret groups for the purpose of conducting activities with the intent of making the idea of coming into this country to live much, much, less unappealing.

    Maybe if illegal aliens houses started burning down or thier personal possessions were mysteriously stolen, or they started getting beaten up on a regular basis, or maybe if they were abducted and had “I am an ILLEGAL ALIEN” tatooed on thier foreheads they’d get the point.

    Sounds harsh I know but what they are doing to legal American citizens is pretty fucking harsh too so fuck them.

  • http://jpsgoddamnblog.blogspot.com JP

    Gonzo, I’m also an advocate that the demand side of the equation is the best place to act. If companies are still hiring illegals, I don’t care how big of a wall or how many Minutemen you put on the border, they’re going to come here because even low wages in the States are high compared to what’s paid in the 3rd world.

    AC, your suggestions about house burnings and beatings don’t “sound harsh,” they sound like a RAVING LUNATIC. I agree that everyone entering the country needs to come through proper legal channels. There’s no other way to keep track of who’s on our territory, and in turn maintain our security.

    Given that, I have a question, AC. We agree about the illegals, so what about the legal immigrants? If it’s true that people who have entered the US properly and have citizenship are taking jobs Americans want for less money–and thereby lowering the market value of certain jobs in certain areas–is this what you call “what they are doing to legal American citizens”? If so, do you suggest burning THEIR houses down?

  • mike

    The plan is not-feasible, all it would do is creat an enormous ineffective bureacracy which we already have

  • Pizzdolph

    Hello! I copied a few lines from one of Adolf Hitlers old speeches. He’s actually talking about Roosevelt, but it may as well be G.W. Bush! I thought it was …interesting.

    “First he incites war, then falsifies the causes, then odiously wraps himself in a cloak of Christian hypocrisy and slowly but surely leads mankind to war, not without calling God to witness the honesty of his attack – in the approved manner of an old Freemason.”

    Here are a few words from the speech about the immigration problem and why we’re having it.

    “The Governments of the U.S.A. and of England have therefore resisted, not only now but also for all time, every just understanding meant to bring about a better New Order in the world.”

    Here’s one, remember what Bush said at some dinner party? I thought it was strange that this was in Hitlers speech.

    “The American President and his Plutocratic clique have mocked us as the Have-nots – that is true, but the Have-nots will see to it that they are not robbed of the little they have.”

    By the way, I’m American. Born and raised here and have worked my butt off all my life to get the things I have. I’m 46 yrs old and out of those 46 yrs, I recieved foodstamps for six months until I found a job. My family has fought for this country for many generations. I still don’t own my own home but I know of some people who’ve only been in the country for a few years that have had their homes almost handed to them.
    I’m a conservative and I voted for Bush, but I have to wonder if maybe the good guy lost back in the ’40’s?

  • Arch Conservative

    Yeah that’s great Pizzdolph only Bush didn’t falsify the causes” and no matter how much you and your ilk repeat your tired mantras it will not change this fact.

    You then go on to question wether or not it would have been better if Hitler and the Nazis had won?

    You’re a fucking idiot!

  • http://www.cowboysmoke.com Wendy

    You may like to know about a film in the works that addresses issues of illegal immigration…

    Your thoughts about a film like this?

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    The first job he is offered is killing illegal Mexican immigrants simply because they are crossing over private property.

    Wendy, is this something that is supposed to be actually happening? I mean, is it really one of the “issues of illegal immigration” that illegal immigrants are being gunned down for tresspassing? Sounds to me like this is propaganda that attempts to smear the Minuteman movement.

  • Dave Nalle

    Wendy, is this something that is supposed to be actually happening? I mean, is it really one of the “issues of illegal immigration” that illegal immigrants are being gunned down for tresspassing? Sounds to me like this is propaganda that attempts to smear the Minuteman movement.

    I’m not exactly against the Minutemen, but this kind of stuff has probably happened. Ranchers on the border for years have occasionally quietly disposed of illegals trespassing on their land. They got fed up with illegals polluting their water with human waste and some of them began taking the law into their own hands and the illegals ended up in unmarked graves. No evidence one way or another, but it’s part of ‘common knowledge’ in border states.

    Dave

  • Dave Nalle

    Pizz, nothing you posted made any sense at all. Good job.

    Dave

  • Arch Conservative

    Another thing to consider is that there are many coyotes (professionals who help illgeal aliens across) I believe they call them crossing the border on the private property of US citizens.

    Some say that these coyotes themselves carry guns and are not hesitant to use them.

    Then there is also the issue of people bringing drugs across the border on private property.

    So I think if i was a ranch owner on the border in Arizon, New Mexico or Texas I’d probably have an itchy trigger finger too.

  • Nancy

    I won’t waste my tears on any illegal, man, woman, or child, who takes the bet & loses. Good riddance.

  • http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/08/2_illegal_immig.php Richard Brodie

    Check out my URL for an incredible story.

    Illegals detained by a rancher get sleazeball lawyer to win judgment awarding the man’s ranch to the scum, who’s bull-shit claim was “post-traumatic stress”. There were UNSUBSTANTIATED charges of “pistol whipping”.

  • Nancy

    Yeah, I remember reading that; it was not an urban legend. He should have shot them & left the carcasses for the vultures & 4-legged coyotes.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    He should have shot them & left the carcasses for the vultures & 4-legged coyotes.

    Yeah. Look at how they “rewarded” him for letting them live! I’m afraid the time for some REAL vigilante action is not far off, if Americans are not going to just let the ruling elitist lawyer/politician class literally give our country away to the invading alien hordes.

  • Dynamo of Eternia

    In Illinois, premarital sex is illegal.

    Uh-oh.

    Apparently my fiance and I have been breaking the law for some time now.

    Oops.

  • Pizzdolph

    Sorry about the confusion, Dave.

    I’ve been helping my daughter with a school project about the holocaust and Adolf Hitler and I was amazed at how he was able to organize such a powerful war machine and advance as far as he did before he was stopped. Hitler was by no means, a dumb ass.

    I agree that he was crazy, but had he not made a few mistakes, we’d probably all be speaking German right now? Anyway, I watched Moore’s documentary “farenhiet 9/11″ (which I absolutely hated I might add) and remembered some of the things from Hitler’s speech that I thought were strangely similar to things that are going on here in America, like the lack of order and or enforcement of our laws. Not just immigration laws, but ALL of our laws!

    If people would just take a look, they will see that even the laws that are enforced often have a “slap on the wrist” penalty. We have criminals right back on the streets after serving only a few months or years in jail or prison (which are nothing like they used to be by the way) who are even second or third time offenders!

    The bleeding heart liberals in this country are nothing but a clog in the shit pipe of America that needs to be plunged away so that the system can function! Like the ones who say “Oh, the chain gang is just too cruel and brutal!” or “oh my god NO! Public execution is too violent and inhuman for our children to witness!” But the children are the very ones who need to see it! And the parents need to sit down with them and explain that this is the ugly part of life, and if you commit a crime like that, this is what WILL happen to you.

    So anyway, @ Wendy, here we have the big immigration problem! No I don’t think we should just shoot them, but we should have the balls to say “We haven’t been enforcing immigration laws for a while, and we see now that it was a mistake and we intend to correct that mistake by enforcing the laws to the fullest.” This country simply has to get tougher on crime and punishment.

    I don’t care to hear about poverty in Mexico! I was once homeless and eating left over pizza from garbage cans with a wife and child. As I mentioned before, we received government assistance for a short while until I found work. I came from a Republican family and was raised to believe that one must take responsibility for their actions, and pay their own way through life. Un-like the liberal democrats who want to do everything for those who do nothing!

    Don’t be fooled into thinking that immigrating Mexicans or anyone else for that matter is the answer to the economy when they are the very problem! It is bullshit that Americans won’t do the work the Mexicans are doing! You have to first get them the hell out of here and give us the damned opportunity!

    @ Arch: You obviously have not looked at the overwhelming amount of evidence that something is very wrong with the 9/11 attacks. The government knew that some of the smarter Americans would figure it out, but would be too few in numbers to do anything about it. Since you are not willing to accept that our government is capable of doing such a thing, lacks the technology, or had a motive to do it, then you sir are the “fucking idiot!”

    Hitler was not all evil, he did do some horrible things, but I believe we did too. When history repeats itself, does anyone notice? Is it going to take nuking the middle east before someone says “Hey…wait a minute… what the fuck?”

  • Nancy

    And now, Fearless Leader wants to nuke Iran because only HE has the ‘guts to take it on’. This just confirms what I’ve already suspected: either W must be the antichrist, hiding his black hole of evil behind a faux Texan as-shucks good ol’ boy cameraderie (the 3rd Fatima secret did mention the antichrist would come from the middle East; it didn’t specify WHICH middle east: could have been Connecticut, I suppose), or he’s totally, entirely out of touch and out of his mind to think he can bolser his sagging polls by starting a brand-new ‘nook-yu-lar’ war with yet another middle eastern country!

  • Arch Conservative

    As a conservative Republican I think it would be downright stupid if Bush decided to send troops into Iran.

    However that doe snot mean we should let Iran do whatever they want either.

    As for vigilanteism…..I’m all for it.

    The illegals have taken the law into thier own hands so why can’t real legal American citizens?

    Time to build a fence……

    Time to put the military on the border……….

    Time to buy a gun and load it………

    Time to tell that guy in line behind speaking spanish to shut the fuck up and start speaking english……….

    Time to support the minitemen………

    Time to take to the streets in greater numbers and breakup these illegal alien protests………

    Time to say enough is enough

    Fuck em. Fuck em all!

  • RedTard

    “However that doe snot mean we should let Iran do whatever they want either.”

    What does Doe Snot have to do with Iran Arch?

    Iran should be allowed to do whatever it wants. It doesn’t have the capability to attack us. Western culture, greed, sex, and music are our best weapons and what will ultimately bring the regime down, not ill advised air strikes.

    We should suggest nicely that they don’t develop weapons and let them know that they do so at their own risk. If they actually use them against anyone in the region we will reduce their country to a sea of glass. It’s better than MAD, it’s OSAD (one sided assured destruction).

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    Most of the anti-illegal-alien letters to the editor that I see in the newspaper these days are from women. Women are nest-builders, more concerned with their own long term security that men are. I think they perceive the threat more clearly, and sense the danger of rot to the very socio-political tree in which their families’ nests are built.

  • Arch Conservative

    Your sea of glass comment gave me a great idea Redtard. An idea that will solve two problems instead of just the Iran one.

    We bomb Iran and then turn it into a giant parking lot for Euro Disney.

    Then we hire all the angry unemployed French youth to shuttle people from this parking lot to Eurodisney in Paris.

  • Bliffle

    I object to cheap illegal aliens taking crop-picking jobs away from deserving machines. The reason American laborers aren’t being displaced in the fields is because machines can, and have, been doing the job better for years. And those illegals are depriving skilled workers in the factories that make tomato pickers, and they deprive the engineers that have studied and learned through arduous experiment to design better tomato pickers.

    Remember what Norbert Weiner said 60 years ago: no man can work cheap enough to compete with a steam shovel and not starve to death.

  • zingzing

    yes! let’s turn our southern border into another warzone! i hope y’all have a good time shootin’ some mexicans! wee-ooh! what fun! look at ‘em twitch!

    fucking loonies.

  • Bliffle

    Arch: “As a conservative Republican I think it would be downright stupid if Bush decided to send troops into Iran.”

    I believe Bush has already sent special forces into Iran.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Wow, this comment thread went south fast.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    Wow, this comment thread went south fast.

    Yeah, almost as fast as the illegals are coming north!

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    awesome

  • Jesse

    First of all I am not rascist. I am a white man who married a lady of Spanish descent. I worked in construction for almost fourteen years doing roofing. Now I am making about one third of what I made about three years ago. I am getting very angry when I hear American citizens say that Mexicans work better than Americans. The truth is, they don’t. I also am tired of hearing how there are certain jobs that Americans just won’t do. Before this large influx of illegal immigration are we to assume that there were no Americans working in Construction? About a hundered years ago African slaves were a lot more prized as workers than whites were. If someone has a business and can’t find American citizens to employ then they have no business in business. One last thing, illegals are fond of saying that they aren’t criminals. To them I say if you are living here ILLEGALLY you are a criminal or in other words Si Ud. esta aqui illegalemente, entonces Ud. es un criminal.

  • Jesse

    It is very obvious to me that the reason the Government hasn’t done any thing about illegal immigration is because the contractors who hire them support politicians who look the other way. I blame the Democrats and the Republicans becuase one party may be more complicent but the other party allowed it to happen. I find it particalarily absurd that the argument that they should not be granted amnesty becuase they came here illegally is being bandied about. It is not feasible that all of these illegal aliens be rounded up and sent back. since we live in a world that “is” and not “should”, although some people just don’t think that it’s fair that they be allowed to stay, they are here to stay. Since they are here to stay, the institution that allowed them to come here in the first place should be held accountable. The funniest thing I have been hearing is “what kind of message does this send to people that wanted to legally immigrate from Mexico?” If there is a Mexican that wanted to immigrate legally and didn’t then he just failed to take advantage of an institution that invited them here illegally in the first place. The message that he’ll be getting is the truth. Also I want to know why Congress even cares what message that sends. As long as nothing is settled, immigrants are going to keep coming, taking American jobs that employers want to pay immigrants less money than Americans. For all those Contractors that I have met that claim that Mexicans work twice as hard as Americans I want to ask ; Why don’t you pay them twice as much? When it comes down to it there are only two options, either send them home or grant them amnesty. There is no way that if either one of these things is done that somebody is going to be happy about it, but it will be one way or the other. Oh yeah one last thing. All of you people out there that have been hiring illegal aliens for construction and particaularily roofing, I just want you to know that when you pay people dirt cheap, they are going to do as little as they have to, to get by and when your roofs leak , and they will, and when you call me or someone like me to repair it, I am going to make you aware of the folly of your greed, as will be reflected in my bill.

  • Curt

    Screw the spics. Its not our job to learn your BS language and take care of your lazy a**es. Stay in your cheap state. I figure I can type what I want about you, because chances are you cant read a word of english anyway. hahaha

  • CptAwesome

    “Any illegal immigrants captured or otherwise discovered in the United State will be permanently banned from legal immigration.” wouldn’t this have a completely adverse effect, spurring more illegal immigration?