Today on Blogcritics
Home » A Reality Check for the Ron Paul Fringe

A Reality Check for the Ron Paul Fringe

Please Share...Tweet about this on Twitter0Share on Facebook10Share on Google+0Share on LinkedIn0Pin on Pinterest0Share on TumblrShare on StumbleUpon0Share on Reddit0Email this to someone

The latest campaign from the Ron Paul movement seems to be going around to every forum and message base and blog comment area and posting a link to a letter which presents their version of a reasoned argument about why the Republican Party should reject John McCain and support Ron Paul instead. It’s an interesting document, because it encapsulates in a nutshell a broad selection of the misinformation and delusion which grips many Ron Paul followers, and it also exposes some of the ways in which their John Birch Society inspired agenda deviates substantially from traditional libertarianism.

Like most initiatives in the Ron Paul movement, I have no idea who is behind this letter or who supports it, but it’s typical of much of what comes out of the movement. It’s currently got almost 4000 signatures; clearly a lot of people take it seriously, so it’s worth examining in detail, or at least worth a look at some selected points.

In reading these criticisms, directed to some degree at Ron Paul and to a greater extent at his deluded followers, please keep in mind that I campaigned for Paul in 1988, donated to his Congressional campaign and voted for him in the Texas GOP primary.  While I do not believe that Paul is a true libertarian, he is an important voice for liberty and certainly plays an important role in helping to move the Republican Party towards a more pro-liberty position.  But his good qualities do not excuse his past or present mistakes or justify the excesses of his followers.

The letter  begins by listing the reasons why they think McCain is a weak candidate for the presidency. Some of the points are valid. Others are quite strange.

Senator John McCain is a pro-war candidate. National polls show that 70% of American voters are against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Therefore, a large number of the voting public will vote against Senator John McCain based on this fact.

This is a bit of interesting spin. McCain has never presented himself as ‘pro-war’ — that’s just their interpretation. The actual war in Iraq is largely over and McCain is not currently advocating any other new wars. That McCain supports keeping troops in Iraq until the country is past its current troubles is more of an anti-war position, since our presence there reduces the level of violence and the risk of Iranian invasion and a full-scale war.

The Scott McClellan book might become a bigger issue for Senator John McCain due to his close ties with President George W. Bush.

Pure wishful thinking. The one thing everyone agrees on about the McClellan book is that it contains nothing resembling a smoking gun. Plus it doesn’t contain anything about McCain, and the idea that McCain has close ties with Bush is just something they want people to believe and not supported by the facts. McCain and Bush actively hate each other.

Senator John McCain and his temper scares most Americans and opens up the potential that he could say or do something rash, further jeopardizing Americans and American interests.

I haven’t seen widespread terror of John McCain running amok and harassing the citizenry. His much ballyhooed temper seems to be restricted to such terrible crimes as getting snippy with rude reporters. This is hardly an issue of concern.

Senator John McCain admits he knows very little about economics. This comes at a time when our nation is on the verge of huge financial issues with growing debt, escalating oil prices, devaluation of the dollar, and huge trade deficits and ever expanding borrowing from China.

Putting aside the fact that our trade deficits are smaller than they have been in decades, McCain’s lack of knowledge in economics is no more of a threat to us than Ron Paul’s colossal ignorance of foreign policy. Any leader can rely on the advice of experts. McCain has a virtual army of economic advisors, all of whom have records of supporting budget cuts and limiting government spending. I’d rather have a president who admits his ignorance and seeks good advice than one who thinks he knows everything and advocates crackpot economic schemes which would have disastrous results for the economy.

Inevitably the letter then goes on to explain why Ron Paul is a better choice than John McCain.

Representative Dr. Ron Paul has / had a huge young voter following and would bring those independent voters back to the GOP and away from Senator Barack Obama.

Based on his showing in the GOP primaries his current following is of about the same size as when he ran for president as a Libertarian. A couple of million voters nationwide. They’re very vocal, but in numbers they’re comparable to the supporters of a typical third party candidate.

Representative Dr. Ron Paul would steal ALL the thunder from Bob Barr and the Libertarian Party, delivering that lost 5-8% back to the GOP.

Here they seem to have forgotten that they take Ron Paul a lot more seriously than the rest of the world does. In reality, Bob Barr is a much more credible candidate, even running as a libertarian, than Ron Paul is. He has a more balanced voting record, more of a reputation as a serious politician and is more likely to have the managerial and political skills needed to actually run the country and work with Congress. He’s also much younger, a better public speaker, a lot more personable than Paul and has an actual sense of humor.  They also massively overestimate the support the Libertarian Party gets in elections.  Barr will be lucky to top 1% on that ticket.

Representative Dr. Ron Paul would maintain the constant, core GOP voter. Those who want “Party Unity” and a GOP Presidency would unite behind Representative Dr. Ron Paul.

Why? All they’ve shown him thus far in the election is scorn and open hostility. A lot of them would be more likely to vote for Bob Barr or Barack Obama, or they would draft a third candidate. The Paulistas seem not to understand that Paul holds positions and has associations which are absolutely unacceptable to a great many Republicans, an awful lot of them in positions of power. They might gradually be persuaded to moderate some of those views, but they aren’t going to accept a candidate with whom they are at odds on so many issues.

Representative Dr. Ron Paul has garnered the MOST contributions from our military of any GOP contender. That alone speaks volumes.

Last I checked our government wasn’t run by or for the military, nor are there enough military votes to win an election. In any case, Obama has received more military contributions than Paul overall. By this logic we should support Obama.

Representative Dr. Ron Paul can fill the coffers of the GOP, just look at his fund raising successes at the end of last year.

While Paul’s fundraising was impressive for a fringe candidate it was less than a 10th of what the top two Democrats raised just in the primary. He would never be able to compete with Obama’s fundraising machine, even if he somehow managed to convince corporate contributors to back him.

Representative Dr. Ron Paul is a man of principle, the Constitution, and TRUE core Republican beliefs. He understands our economic issues and our international situations.

While I agree that Paul himself is true to his principles, I’d submit that Ron Paul supporters wouldn’t know a true Republican belief if it bit them on the ass. Their anti-corporate, anti-capitalist populism is totally alien to the traditions of the GOP. They’re more like anarcho-socialists than Republicans or even libertarians. As for Ron Paul, he has some good ideas and some questionable ideas and many of his views are poison to mainstream Republicans. To them he’s an inflexible ideologue who subscribes to a variety of extremist views which would make a terrible basis for national policy. His interpretation of the Constitution is highly selective. He seems not to recognize terms like “public welfare” and “common good” and rejects the long history of Constitutional scholarship and jurisprudence on which most law is based. His understanding of the economy is based on fringe economic theories which most serious economists do not consider credible. The Washington Post offers an interesting look at what would result if his plans were implemented. As for foreign policy, it’s an area in which Paul has no experience at all and his foreign policy would basically amount to isolationism which would have disastrous economic and political repercussions.

Of course, in all of this they neglect to point out some of the other negatives which many bring up about Paul. For example, they completely overlook Paul’s support for the reactionary conspiracy nuts at the John Birch Society and his tolerance of supporters of the reprehensible 9/11 Truth movement or the fact that he raises money on white supremacist websites and has the endorsement of racist leaders like former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke, White Aryan leader Tom Metzger and Stormfront Fuhrer Don Black. That’s a lot worse than McCain’s endorsement from marginally crazy Reverend John Hagee. And let’s not forget Paul’s years of racist newsletter articles a scandal he just hasn’t been able to get away from. These points of criticism can all be countered, if only by pointing out that most of them are the result of misdeeds by others in Paul’s name, but Imagine some of those issues raised as smears in a campaign commercial when Obama goes negative.

So the letter makes very little sense. We already know that McCain is not an ideal candidate, but despite subscribing to very appealing ideals in some areas, Paul has baggage which makes him unacceptable to a lot of Republican voters, plus he didn’t win the popular vote in the primary and doesn’t seem likely to be able to claim enough delegates to mount a serious challenge either. Asking the GOP leadership to intervene and dump McCain for Paul is just laughable. They might draft some more credible alternative candidate if they thought it was necessary – it might even be someone who leans libertarian — but the truth is that they’d rather have the tens of millions of independent and Democrat votes which McCain will draw from Obama than the couple of million fringe votes which Paul will draw from the Libertarians and various extremist groups.

We all want change for the better and would like to have a nation which honors liberty and individual rights as a first priority. The hard truth is that you can’t accomplish those goals with every branch of the government under the control of a Democratic party dominated by socialists and internationalists. They’ll throw away our sovereignty and our rights and there will be no one to stop them. To even begin to get the changes we want we have to stop those who want to change our nation for the worse first, so we at least still have a country we recognize to fight for. To do that we have to get someone elected to the White House, even if they have shortcomings. McCain may not be perfect, but unlike Paul he is electable, and at the very least he will slow the march of socialism and tyrrany and buy us some time.

Powered by

About Dave Nalle

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Writing articles about Paul and the Paulistas is rather like picking at a scab. It’s painful and disgusting, but somehow impossible to resist.

    Dave

  • http://www.myspace.com/shohadaku Shohadaku

    McCain not pro-war? He voted FOR THE WAR. That’s about as pro war as you get.
    McCain and Bush hate eachother? Umm what world do you live in? McCain IS RELATED TO LAURA BUSH. I dare any of you to check that fact.
    Pull your heads out of the sand and stop acting like good lemmings. Stop selling your country down the river.
    Ron Paul is the first honest true patriot to run for president in our lifetime. His knowledge of the economy among other things related to the office puts all the other candidates to complete shame.
    I dare you to let Paul debate Obama and/or McCain. He would make them look like the puppet monkeys they truely are.
    Wake up you fools.

  • http://evilbankers.com Drumz

    If a candidate accepts campaign or lobby money from corporations who profit directly from military activities, they are considered “pro-war.” If a candidate does not, they are considered “anti-war.”

    Get it? Not too difficult.

    Therefore McCain and Obama are considered “pro-war” by those with a functioning brain, willing to accept the truth.

    Ron Paul does not accept lobby money or campaign money from war profiteers OR commercial media whore who promote the war.

    And, yes. Those commercial war media companies are the same ones who have said “Ron Paul can’t win” since BEFORE ANY debate, or ANY poll. They knew their newscasts wouldn’t be as valuable if we weren’t at war 24 hours a day, so they shut him down.

    It intellectually disingenuous to say that the media’s exclusion and vilification of Ron Paul didn’t have a lot to do with his failed campaign.

  • Dan

    The War in Iraq is over? Did you happen to ask the Americans dying and the Iraqis and insurgents killing them every day about that? I’m in the Air Force and our leadership tells us all the time that we are at War.

    And Ron Paul is ignorant of foreign policy? I suppose you believe that the policies of using the CIA to overthrow dictators and fund warlords while turning a blind eye to their perpetrations of egregious human rights violations has served us well.

  • Andrew Panken

    Whether McCain wins or not will be irrelevant in November. There isn’t much doubt that the Democratic party will sweep most Congressional seats into their column. In the face of a Democratic Congress, McCain will just “cooperate” with Democrats, to attempt to win a second term. That will be McCain’s main goal in office, more power. I hope your McCain wins, so you can see what happens to liberty, under him. Obviously, you have given up on natural rights. We are all slaves to our government. Your politicians must decide, the best for us. Liberty is just a word to you. You don’t have any idea, that you are a prime proponent of socialism, as most Republicans and Democrats are. We already have socialism, it’s only a matter of time before an American Pol Pot takes charge.

  • ronpauljones

    I agree, no letter is going to change the GOP’s mind at this point. However, by signing this letter, you are telling the GOP that they have lost their way and, in so doing, losing voters. This, combined with the embarrassing % of primary/caucus votes McCain has lost to Ron Paul, may affect some positive changes in the GOP platform. Like it or not, the revolution has begun.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Is there any way I can get off of this planet? Is there some room on the next shuttle flight? This fucking place is going to socialist hell in a hand basket.

    Dave, as you know I’m no Paulite, but I think you miss something regarding McCain. While some of your beliefs regarding the presumptive Rep nominee may be correct, many of the issues raised by the Paul letter are, in fact, how McCain is perceived by many of the voting public. He is perceived to be a Bush clone. He is perceived to have a short fuse. He is perceived to be pro-war (although, here, I must echo Dan’s query – The war is over???)

    In politics as in advertising image (perception) is everything. I’d say Johnny has his work cut out for him in knocking down those perceptions. I hope he doesn’t manage to fly off in a hissy fit in the effort.

    Should Obama prevail in November; if Congress takes on a far more bluer hue, I’ll endeavor to put together some capitalist care packages to send off to you and other bereft Libertarians.

    If anyone has any suggestions as to what would be good to include in such a package, please let fly here.

    Another note: The Paulites sound a great deal like died-in-the-wool born again christians warning of the dire consequences of not heeding their call. Just as with the fundies, the Paulites appear to be about four nickels and 3 pennies short of a quarter – leaving them with only their two cents worth.

    B-tone

  • RM

    Sigh. Once again Dave Nalle puts on his little reporter cap and taps furiously away at his keyboard, pretending to be “Scoop Nalle; Ace reporter”. If it weren’t so pathetic, it might actually be funny. But it’s not funny. Just sad.

    Dave, I’m sure that your mother is still proud of you anyway. Keep trying dude, maybe someday you’ll finally amount to something.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    This, combined with the embarrassing % of primary/caucus votes McCain has lost to Ron Paul,

    Just to set the record straight, McCain has lost zero primaries to Paul.

    may affect some positive changes in the GOP platform. Like it or not, the revolution has begun.

    I’ll give you that this is the upside. Once the movement sheds Paul and grows up it can have a very positive effect on the GOP.

    Dave

  • Don

    That was just a plain weak argument against Dr. Paul. The GOP has changed and will do absolutely nothing to stop the spread of socialism and at the same time fascism in the USA.

    Government will get bigger, nothing will be done about the deficit, military intervention will increase, but somehow McCain will help buy us some time?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    If a candidate accepts campaign or lobby money from corporations who profit directly from military activities, they are considered “pro-war.” If a candidate does not, they are considered “anti-war.”

    Get it? Not too difficult.

    But it makes no sense. Who is it that considers them pro or anti war on this basis? Why is that the only consideration? If a candidate took money from defense contractors and then never voted for a war he’d still be pro war? Twaddle.

    Therefore McCain and Obama are considered “pro-war” by those with a functioning brain, willing to accept the truth.

    But Obama didn’t vote for the Iraq war and doesn’t take money from defense contractors. Even by your criteria he’s not pro-war.

    And ‘thinking people’ can tell the difference between someone who is in favor of maintaining a strong defense and someone who thinks wars are great and we should be in them all the time. There’s no indication that McCain is in favor of military adventurism.

    Dave

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    I think at this point, Dave, you’re just trolling the Ron Paul supporters…what is this, four Ron Paul articles in two weeks?

  • Paul Lucero

    Man I do not envy you! McCain is an Very poor choice and you are defending the only survivor of “The Keating Five”. I watched this man tell the MIA families to get stuffed. Perhaps you do not know what an MIA is, so all I will say is McCain has no love true the Military but he know how to make believe that he does.

    All of the other Senator President Wantabes are poor choices too. They all share total responsibility for the current condition we are experiencing. 5.00 dollar a gallon fuel, 10% inflation, Soaring Fuel costs and the coming CDS crisis.

    Did you ever hear of McCain Fine-Gold (SP) or how about Mr. White’s enormous good natured behavor in the Senate. He has the reputation of begin a very poor loser and a down right mean ass. I have seen the behavior first hand and you can to on Youtube.

    McCain can not remember what happened 45 minutes ago!

    Mcain losing it

    Media attacking his comments, statements and general screw ups.

    I have heard him give great credit to all his Economic advisors to counter the FACT that he stated that he is not expert on the Economy. Did you know that the main one is personally responsible for lobbyist who pushed Congress to successfully remove the controls that enables investment banks to make sub-prime and CDOs the new get rich trick and now we have the MORTGAGE BOMB.

    So I challenge you to prove that McCain is the a good choice to manage the government sponsored efforts to do anything. We ask out business executives to be the best of the best and here the GOP force feels us a senior dim wit that is to old for government service and a self admitted rubber stamper with a bad temper.

    I will spend every penny I have to oust the GOP leadership and lay waste the proponent of the Politics of Fear. The Patriot Act must be repealed and the Government Reigned in NOW.

  • Mike S

    I got as far as the “John McCain is not pro-war” paragraph and “the actual war in Iraq is over”, to see that this article is simply a hit piece on Ron Paul. More spin from a misled and dis-illusioned journalist.

    Maybe you should tell the continuous flow of dead and wounded soldiers and my 23 y/o cousin, that was just sent to Iraq, that “the war is over”.

    You write the same propagnda as the people that wrote it during the Viet Nam war. I lost an Uncle in that one.

    This is a pitiful article and you should give much more consideration to the good people that read this. Your condescending attitude towards Ron Paul supporters is wrong and not based on facts, just your emotions. Not good writing, with all due respect.

    Mike S.
    US Army
    Disabled Veteran

  • Sheila

    Excellent article, clearly a McCain supporter wrote it. His own party is turning on him. I just came from a dinner party, where Republicans can’t defend him and have a good political dinner debate. McCain is the Media’s choice, just look at the way they excluded Ron Paul from the debates and marginalized him. They did that for the purpose to paint him as unelectable for a reason, to weed the garden of the good candidates and select McCain the weakest of all GOP Candidates. Now look at who is unelectable. I have a bet going that McCain doesn’t make it through the GOP Convention. The bottom line, if you don’t reassess your position and quickly, you are looking at the Next Global President, with Obama taking orders from the United Nations, no more USA. Did you hear about Obama’s United Nations TAX on all Americans to combat Worldwide Poverty? Bill S 2433, Global Poverty Act

  • RussellK

    I’d submit that Ron Paul supporters wouldn’t know a true Republican belief if it bit them on the ass. Their anti-corporate, anti-capitalist populism is totally alien to the traditions of the GOP. They’re more like anarcho-socialists than Republicans or even libertarians.

    Are you serious????!!!!! “Anarcho-socialists????!!!!!” You do realize that is an oxymoron….right? And not just any oxymoron, the most intense, brain exploding oxymoron that has ever been written. Holly crap man! You are an absolute fool! At least we know not to count on you for accurate definitions of political philosophies.

  • sickntired

    2000 – Bush subverted voting in FL, stole election
    2001 – we all know what happened, and who did it.
    2001 – America invades Afghanistan
    2001 – Bush drops bomb on America with the Patriot Act.
    2002 – Bush at a NATO summit declared that; “should Iraqi President Saddam Hussein choose not to disarm, the United States will lead a coalition of the willing to disarm him.
    2003 – Shock and awe is underway in Iraq
    Fast forward…
    2008 – John McCain comes from nowhere and becomes the “presumptive nominee.” (Is this a mystery to anyone else?)
    My prediction?
    McCain’s cronies will buy the election for him because he is playing ball. The legion of Obama supporters being disenfranchised will riot like it’s 1992. McCain’s first order of business? To declare marshal law to get the rioting under control. His 2nd order of business will be to invade Iran.
    The moral of this story? We’re all fucked. Pack a lunch cause it’s gonna be a long 4 years.

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    Here’s how I see it:

    Ron Paul can’t win, although if he did, the direction of the country would improve for the better (overall; I disagree with him on some things).

    John McCain may win, or he may lose. But even if he wins, he’s going to start acting like a “moderate” Democrat the moment he takes office, as the Democrats will have a 40-50 seat majority in the House and a 5-10 seat majority in the Senate. He’ll be little more than a rubber stamp for the Democrat majority in the Congress (except with regards to Iraq).

    Either way, conservatives/libertarians/Constitutionalists are going to lose in November.

  • RM

    @ #12 — June 8, 2008 @ 22:34PM — RJ Elliott
    Exactly RJ. That’s why I didn’t write anything in response to the “article” mr. Nalle “wrote”. This “article” was meant as a poke in the eye to Dr. Paul and those who appreciate freedom and our Republic. I simply went straight to the core and addressed the real issue of mr. Nalle’s lack of purpose, skill and his menial intelligence. As you may have noticed, he didn’t respond to my initial post due to my hitting so close to the target.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    He is perceived to be a Bush clone.

    I find it hard to believe that more than a fraction of the public could be this simpleminded and uninformed.

    He is perceived to have a short fuse.

    Well, that’s different from Bush, anyway. I find it bizarre that one group can fault him for being too accomodating while another faults him for being too rash. Contradictory.

    He is perceived to be pro-war (although, here, I must echo Dan’s query – The war is over???)

    Sheesh, we’ve been over this before. By any normal definition, the war ended within a matter of a few months. Since then we’ve been involved in dealing with insurgents and terrorism and maintaining or creating peace. Soldiers still die in that kind of action. It can be damned dangerous. And it has certainly dragged on way too long. But with no defined and organized enemy army it’s really not a war. We’ve gotten way too lazy with calling everything a war anyway.

    Dave

  • Former GOPer

    “There’s no indication that McCain is in favor of military adventurism.”

    What the hell are you talking about? The guy sang “Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran”!

  • RussellK

    “Is there any way I can get off of this planet? Is there some room on the next shuttle flight? This fucking place is going to socialist hell in a hand basket.” -Baritone

    +

    “Another note: The Paulites sound a great deal like died-in-the-wool born again christians warning of the dire consequences of not heeding their call.” -Baritone

    =WTF Mate?!?!

    That’s the fucking envy of all contradictions if I’ve ever seen one. Anything to add Baritone? The world is going to end…… but anyone that says so is crazy!!!!!

  • sherrie

    it seems like the writer of this article is the one who needs a reality check. mccain is a total embarrassment as are the people who blindly support him. the GOP needs and deserves to go down after forcing this unpresidential CFR tied boob on the american people. he like obama is bought and sold and will lead us down the same path of destruction that bush has. if a huge lack of integrity, amnesty for illegals and yes war monger is what you want in a presidential candidate then it appears that you have your man. you might try looking at the bigger picture. the NAU/SPP, the CFR, the NWO and the FED.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I think at this point, Dave, you’re just trolling the Ron Paul supporters…what is this, four Ron Paul articles in two weeks?

    I’ve got two more in the works then a whole state convention to report on which will have some Ron Paul news in it.

    It’s kind of fascinating – like poking an ant mound with a stick. It’s worth doing just to see the drones pour out of the mound in single-minded determination.

    Dave

  • tf

    I think someone is just trying to justify their votes for McCain when they know they’re wrong. Just my opinion

  • sickntired

    This is how McCain will win…this is not a joke. Everyone needs to see this if they haven’t already.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Are you serious????!!!!!

    Sometimes, not always.

    “Anarcho-socialists????!!!!!” You do realize that is an oxymoron….right?

    No, it’s a standard political definition for a specific philosophy.

    I refer you to the Wikipedia entries for Social Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that all Ron Paul supporters fall in this category, but some clearly do, and some of this ideology has definitely tainted the ‘movement’, with its emphasis on anti-war militancy, hostility towards capitalism and nativist/protectionist elements.

    Dave

  • RM

    I’ve got two more in the works then a whole state convention to report on which will have some Ron Paul news in it.

    What you “write” is not “reporting”.

    It’s kind of fascinating – like poking an ant mound with a stick. It’s worth doing just to see the drones pour out of the mound in single-minded determination.

    I bet it’s just driving you nuts not being able to respond when someone pokes back and reveals just what a waste of time, space and air you are.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I think someone is just trying to justify their votes for McCain when they know they’re wrong. Just my opinion

    I’ve never voted for McCain in a primary and never had the opportunity in a general election. I held my nose and voted for Ron Paul in the GOP primary. In the fall I won’t be voting for Obama. Beyond that I want to see how McCain shapes up. I’m relatively positively impressed with Bob Barr, but I just don’t see him winning coming out of the LP.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    RM. I’m a writer. I write straight news and I write editorial material. This article is an opinion piece, though it contains factual material. See my second most recent article for a factual news piece on a Ron Paul related issue. I even write fiction and poetry.

    Since some people – you included apparently – can’t tell the difference between News and Opinion, Blogcritics provides a convenient tag at the top of each article to TELL you if it’s news or opinion or something else.

    Dave

  • Kyle

    “The actual war in Iraq is over”

    How do you figure that, if I may ask? I mean, I suppose you could say that the war has been over since May of 2003, when the daring ‘mission accomplished’ speech was delivered. In that case, though, I’m not really sure why Americans have been dying on Iraq’s desert battle fields for the past five years. Hm…

    And you know where else I’ve heard the phrase ‘mission accomplished’? From John McCain, in that same year. So much for hate…

  • RM

    RM. I’m a writer.

    Yes, yes. I’m sure that your mommy keeps telling you that. Everyone else just sniggers under their breath. No worries, it’s not like the ladies take you seriously anyways.

  • Baba Padmanabhan

    Hey dude – thanks for doing a report on http://www.lettertogop.com, the signature count is now at 5500, I’m sure you brought some traffic to the site yourself…welcome to the r3VOLution.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I believe there are a great number of “simple minded” voters out there. They managed to elect a simple minded president – twice.

    These same simpletons are certainly capable of espousing contradictory positions.

    “We’ve gotten way too lazy with calling everything a war anyway.”

    I disagree. What constitutes “war” has changed dramatically since Vietnam or even Korea. The government persisted in referring to the Korean conflict as a “police action.” The nature of warfare hardly resembles that we came to understand through WWII.

    And the Bushies never fail to remind us that we are in fact “at war.” If people are deployed to a foreign nation and incur hostilities from an organized enemy, or enemies, that, for my money, constitutes war.

    It seems that most commenters here assume a McCain victory in November. I guess even typing out the words ‘President Obama’ is just too much for all you conservative, Reps, Libertars, or Paulites to bear.

    I’m still looking for some “conservative care package” suggestions.

    B-tone

  • RussellK

    “I refer you to the Wikipedia entries for Social Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that all Ron Paul supporters fall in this category, but some clearly do, and some of this ideology has definitely tainted the ‘movement’, with its emphasis on anti-war militancy, hostility towards capitalism and nativist/protectionist elements.”

    If you read through those articles you linked, you would see that the description of those “philosophies” are just as contradictory as their title suggests. It is silly to use them to make any serious point.

    “This equality and freedom would be achieved through the abolition of authoritarian institutions and private property,[2] in order that direct control of the means of production and resources will be gained by the working class and society as a whole. Libertarian socialism also constitutes a tendency of thought that informs the identification, criticism and practical dismantling of illegitimate authority in all aspects of social life. Accordingly libertarian socialists believe that “the exercise of power in any institutionalized form – whether economic, political, religious, or sexual – brutalizes both the wielder of power and the one over whom it is exercised.”

    Is it even possible to abolish property rights without exercising institutional power? If you don’t see the silliness in that description, I am sorry. If you use that to describe Ron Paul supporters, you know nothing of this movement.

  • Deno

    I believe by just these sorts of articles prove the impact on the Republican Party. To be honest the Republican Party bosses aren’t worried about that letter as much as their worried about being thrown out of their leadership roles. This election doesn’t mean anything to hardcore Republicans but the Ron Paul movement definitely does.

  • A. C.

    The letter has 4,000 signatures, which is a lot? Over two million people in the U.S. are suffering from schizophrenia today, not to mention bipolar and other serious mental illnesses. It should be easy to find over 4,000 people to sign that Ron Paul letter.

  • http://ilovetheconstitution.blogspot.com badmedia

    I quit reading once you tried to convince me it was a lie that McCain was pro-war. I’m not a big fan of satire really.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    NALLE- WE TRUE PATRIOTS IE RON PAUL SUPPORTERS SEE THROUGH YOUR FASCIST RANTS TO YOUR ROLE IN THE JEW BANKER CONSPIRACY THAT IS RUINING THE COUNTRY. PRESIDENT RON PAUL WILL PUT THE WHITE MAN BACK IN CHARGE OF THIS CHRISTIAN COUNTRY. YOUR DAY WILL COME, JEW-LOVER. YEE-HAW!

  • RM

    ok, please don’t tell me that i was the only one nauseated by that.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Perhaps not, RM, but you may have been the only one not to get the satire.

  • Clavos

    Off his meds, too…:>)

  • ThomasfromTexas

    You need the reality check. It’s a waste of time responding to your points. The bottom line is that Ron Paul had no media coverage and his percentage in recent primaries has been rising up to almost 25% against someone who was the presumed nominee… How can you explain such grassroots support? Open your eyes and wake up. The neocons and McCain are for war (Iran is next…). What a wasted article. This country has no choice come November unless Ron Paul’s name is on the ballot.

  • ThomasfromTexas
  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Al B. is welcome to shamelessly promote his rather interesting blog article on my comments thread anytime.

    Dave

  • bill

    america is in great shape, let’s not try to make it better

  • James

    McCain is not Pro-war?? I am laughing so hard right now my side is hurting. McCain thinks we should be in Iraq for 100 years, remember that little remark? Not to mention he is a liberal who supports Al Gores Global Warming Plan. The Paul supporters are the most active people putting forward the most effort and competing in every way possible including the local level. I am inspired by these great people and I have decided to join them. If this was just a presidential run to become president Ron Paul would just quit. This is a movement and it will outlast the Ron Paul legacy. It is the idea we support not as much as the man. That is what you neocons don’t get were not just going to give up. The fight has just begun.

    Liberty is Calling!

  • http://www.blueseaconsulting.com Kendall Young

    I’m sixty years old. Not an old man, but certainly not a young one. I didn’t “dodge the draft,” but I drew a ‘big number’ in the lottery and never got drafted. However, I never had a problem with anyone that left the country because of the draft. I figured that as an American we have sole ownership of ourselves. I still do!

    I find it interesting that this discussion seems to be pivoting about “war” in some fashion or another. I dare say that I believe that most everyone commenting has no “firsthand knowledge” about whether or not we should be “at war” with the Iraqis. I’m also “sure” that most of you never stop to contemplate the horror that a war represents to the Iraqi people.

    I see a lot of bickering back and forth, and it reminds me of high school debate. There does not seem to be any solid philosophical positions taken by those opposed to Dr. Paul.

    I guess I have to ask the question: Is it better to trade with your neighbor or to overpower him and capture his goods?

  • Charger

    “It’s an interesting document, because it encapsulates in a nutshell a broad selection of the misinformation and delusion on which their campaign is based, and it also exposes some of the ways in which their John Birch Society inspired agenda deviates substantially from traditional libertarianism.” – D.N.

    I read and re-read the letter three times, and I still can’t see how the above sentence relates to it at all.
    Also, since Ron Paul is a member of the republican party, how could his deviating from traditional libertarianism be an issue? He’s a conservative!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    McCain is not Pro-war?? I am laughing so hard right now my side is hurting. McCain thinks we should be in Iraq for 100 years, remember that little remark?

    Be in Iraq, not be at war in Iraq. Vital difference. A long term presence in the region is not the same as being at war there. Might even be a way NOT to be at war.

    Not to mention he is a liberal who supports Al Gores Global Warming Plan.

    Never said he was perfect, just that he’s better than Obama.

    The Paul supporters are the most active people putting forward the most effort and competing in every way possible including the local level. I am inspired by these great people and I have decided to join them.

    I still give them limited support. I just can’t sign on for the craziness which goes with all the good stuff.

    If this was just a presidential run to become president Ron Paul would just quit. This is a movement and it will outlast the Ron Paul legacy.

    Once the movement gets past Paul I think it stands a chance of getting something done. I doin’t see that happeneing yet.

    It is the idea we support not as much as the man. That is what you neocons don’t get were not just going to give up. The fight has just begun.

    You need to learn who is and is not a neocon before you’re going to make much progress. Calling real libertarians neocons just makes you look ignorant.

    Dave

  • Scott Harmon

    Well, let’s just stop pretending that McCain is an antidote for what ails us. He’s more of the same, Bush III, or whatever you call him. The Republican Party, lost in the haze of WWII glories and remembrances, old and fatigued, is ready to die. Through Bush I and II, the Republican Party has relished the Cold War, the Iraq Wars, and the embrace of rampant colonialism throughout the world. The Republican Party is a top-down, Stalinistic organization that bows to the masters of multinational businesses and corporatism, and seeks out the most base elements of American society (fundamentalists and warmongers) to complete its mission. Yes, McCain will do well with these groups.

    But the game is up. Many people are tired of anything that smells like Bush and the idiotocracy that he has created. I am not pro-Obama, but it looks like anything different this year will sell.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Also, since Ron Paul is a member of the republican party, how could his deviating from traditional libertarianism be an issue? He’s a conservative!

    But..but..but..his followers all claim he’s a (small l) libertarian. But you’ve hit the nail on the head. He’s not a libertarian and he’s not a republican (again, small r). He’s something else.

    Keep an eye out for my future article…”Ron Paul is Not a Libertarian.”

    Dave

  • Brandon

    This piece is probably the most un-objective amount of information I’ve ever read. Mc Cain is completely pro-war, to say he isn’t pro-war because he isnt for starting new wars is ridiculous. Your argument, first off, isnt even compatible because he wants war with Iran, he’s joked about bombing them and advocates a policy of intervention, he has even stated he would prefer their government to be overthrown, etc. You are a moron and people who read this should treat these lines of information typed from your fingers as they are, another way to divert attention from the real issue as to why Ron Paul supporters despise Mc Cain. We hate Mc Cain because he doesn’t represent our country. 70% of the American people want us out of Iraq, Mc Cain doesn’t want us out. Research something before typing, I know it’s hard for people like you, but please do. Thanks.

  • rokdevil

    I just wish I could understand why I’m considered a “drone”. I’m certainly not “an idle person who lives off others” nor am I “a loafer”. I have to assume that you mean more like a blind follower. However, even if that’s what you meant you missed by a mile. Contrary to popular belief I think that most Paulites are much more discerning in their political leanings. For myself I tend to follow up on statements that politicians make and I’ve found Dr. Paul to be pretty consistent.

    Another thing I don’t understand is the common belittling of Dr. Paul’s insistence on following the Constitution. Is there something wrong with doing so? Is he misreading it somehow? I never seem to get an answer to that one, like its some secret that’s closely held by a benign group of elders who just don’t want to upset me.

    McCain’s poor control of his temper has been pretty well documented.

    I understand your reference to the “actual war” being over but when a country has 140k+ troops controlling a country and many of the residents don’t like it I think we could classify it as pretty much a war.

    And I think its safe to say that he is in favor of military solutions to political problems. He considers the Iraq war “necessary and just” even though we know that the invasion of Iraq was neither necessary nor just. He has also joked about bombing Iran. Not your crispiest cookie in the pack.

    I think that most Paulites are reasonable people who are tired of unreasonable behavior by politicians. We see that in general our government has simply gone to far in most things and we would like to downsize it to a reasonable level.

  • http://www.blog.garrettjreed.com Garrett J Reed

    “‘Anarcho-socialists????!!!!!” You do realize that is an oxymoron….right?’
    No, it’s a standard political definition for a specific philosophy.

    I refer you to the Wikipedia entries for Social Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism.”

    Point of order.
    Social Anarchism, even as defined by wikipedia, a source no academic takes completely seriously, is in no way “Socialism” as in government enforced and sponsored redistribution of wealth.

    But sure if you want to be diluted and think that they are the same philosophy, be my guest. Just saying it’s better to check your “factually based” opinions on something other then wikipedia, saves on the embarrassment, if being from Texas wasn’t enough of one.

    One thing I do agree though is we shouldn’t be lazy and define every thing as WAR, Iraq is an extended military police action. And we should define it as such, as by that definition it is clearly a violation of our constitution. You know that thing that also forbids foreign intervention except in the case of a war on our soil.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Point of order.
    Social Anarchism, even as defined by wikipedia, a source no academic takes completely seriously, is in no way “Socialism” as in government enforced and sponsored redistribution of wealth.

    Wikipedia draws those entries from reputable sources. Check the footnotes. As for anarchism and socialism, the fact is that they are NOT incompatible. If anarchism gets rid of ALL property and ALL wealth, then socialism no longer involves redistribution of wealth because there is none. Socialism only involves redistribution of wealth in a capitalist society with property ownership. Get rid of that and it all changes.

    But sure if you want to be diluted and think that they are the same philosophy, be my guest.

    Of course they’re not the same, but the reason you apply a hyphenated name is that elements can be combined to produce a hybrid of the two.

    Just saying it’s better to check your “factually based” opinions on something other then wikipedia,

    I didn’t need to check Wikipedia. I just linked to it to make it easy for you. My years as a libertarian, my reading in political philosophy and my time as an academic make me more than cognizant, off the top of my head of what the terms mean and how they relate.

    saves on the embarrassment, if being from Texas wasn’t enough of one.

    Ron Paul is from Texas, remember?

    And we should define it as such, as by that definition it is clearly a violation of our constitution. You know that thing that also forbids foreign intervention except in the case of a war on our soil.

    You need to actually READ the Constitution sometime. Your first point is debatable and the SC has ruled that your interpreation is wrong and that the AUMF is in fact a declaration of war. And your second statement is pure bollocks.

    The one valid point is that the AUMF under the Constitution should not have been allowed to have a term of more than 2 years, but the argument there is that subsequent acts have effectively renewed or reissued the AUMF.

    Dave

  • TJ

    “the idea that McCain has close ties with Bush is just something they want people to believe and not supported by the facts. McCain and Bush actively hate each other.”

    So you are going to analyze a piece on the facts and then state “McCain and Bush actively hate each other.” Do you realize how that makes everything you say not credible. Anybody who reads your piece needs to realize you are no better than the letter they support.

    Go to college and learn a skill.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    TJ, what actual evidence do you have that Bush and McCain are bosom buddies? Would it be Bush’s use of a rumor that McCain had a black baby against him in the 2000 election? I bet that’s a great way to start a longtime friendship. Or perhaps it was McCain’s active opposition to Bush’s efforts to circumvent FISA and the Geneva Convention? Bush loves people who try to screw with his plans. I bet they held hands after that.

    Please, don’t be a tard. It’s politics. They’ll work together because the alternative is worse. Doesn’t mean they like each other.

    Dave

  • non neocondrethal

    you wrote, “McCain has never presented himself as ‘pro-war’ — that’s just their interpretation.”

    let me remind you of that little ditty he sang, I believe it goes: “bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.” You’ve heard it.

    And, why is it necessary to “interpret” his stance on war? Don’t you think we’ve had enough of that crap? How about someone who says it like it is? Someone with INTEGRITY and HONESTY for a change?

    you added, “The actual war in Iraq is over and McCain is not currently advocating any other new wars.”

    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? The war in Iraq is OVER? Wow, I gotta get me one of them time machines too. “…not currently advocating any other new wars…” see above.

    What saddens me the most is that this is all very simple. So simple, a monkee can understand it. Really. Our country has LAWS. If they are violated, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to make noise about it. Unless of course, you are unamerican. DUH.

  • RM

    Ok, if everyone is through watching mr. Nalle stroke himself in this mental masturbation that he likes to think of a “journalism”. You just encourage him by responding to his “points”, and it post-pones his getting a life.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    let me remind you of that little ditty he sang, I believe it goes: “bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.” You’ve heard it.

    Why do the Paulistas bring that up again and again? Is having a sense of humor illegal now? Or is it because they have no sense of humor that they find McCain having one offensive?

    How about someone who says it like it is? Someone with INTEGRITY and HONESTY for a change?

    Sounds great. Can I add that he not be a racist, homophobe or religious nutcase?

    What saddens me the most is that this is all very simple. So simple, a monkee can understand it. Really. Our country has LAWS. If they are violated, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to make noise about it. Unless of course, you are unamerican. DUH.

    Seig Heil! Obey the law! Obery ALL the laws! Obey the PATRIOT ACT! Obey the MCA! Obey FISA! Obey Real ID! Obey, obey. Don’t think, just obey! If Congress passes it then it must be good. Obey!

    Dave

  • Monty

    what a tool

  • McCain is a Traitor

    He killed 167 sailors on the USS Forestal when he wet started his airplane and his admiral daddy had him transferred before the smoke cleared. Then he got captured and “songbird” McCain gave away information that killed countless others. He should get a noose instead of a political seat; however, I’m not an American and I hate American’s so, you deserve him.

  • Henry

    You said he is not advocating new wars hmmm ok. Did you forget already of his speech which he said there will be more wars. Oh and lets not forget the 100 years in Iraq statement he made. Try again buddy.

  • Matthew Miller

    Sir you are delusional, and you are doing a great disservice to this country by promoting John McCain, if you love your country ,love your children and are concerned about their future, you will vote Ron Paul, please stop with this nonsense journalism.

  • Former GOPer

    “let me remind you of that little ditty he sang, I believe it goes: “bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.” You’ve heard it.

    Why do the Paulistas bring that up again and again? Is having a sense of humor illegal now?”

    There is nothing funny about a candidate for the United States singing about bombing another country. This would not be acceptable for any other world leader and certainly not for the President of the United States. The fact that you think the war in Iraq is over, that McCain is not pro-war and that singing about bombing Iran is funny destroys completely your credibility in writing about politics.

  • Vincent

    Honestly this article has too many mistakes to even spend time correcting you on it. Ron Paul’s policies are the same as Bush’s in 2000 and Reagan. Reagan helped Ron Paul get elected. It’s a shame people like you get a forum to which you can post drivel like this. Your obvious man love for McCain is clearly clouding your vision. He is a liberal and a flip flopping liar. It’s hard to even know what McCain believes in because he says different things depending on who is listening. Honestly, Hillary would have been a more Republican candidate than McCain is. You clearly have shot yourself in the foot, but don’t worry McCain will take that gun away as soon as possible….look at his voting record. Conservative…..HA!!!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    He killed 167 sailors on the USS Forestal when he wet started his airplane

    Multiple eyewitnesses said he wasn’t even IN his plane when it happened. Perhaps they were all lying. Of course they were. It’s a conspiracy, right?

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    It’s a shame people like you get a forum to which you can post drivel like this.

    Indeed, let’s start rewriting the Constitution by getting rid of the first amendment.

    Your obvious man love for McCain is clearly clouding your vision.

    Love of the truth is all it takes, McCain is just in the right place at the right time.

    Honestly, Hillary would have been a more Republican candidate than McCain is.

    Wow, you really are deranged.

    You clearly have shot yourself in the foot, but don’t worry McCain will take that gun away as soon as possible….look at his voting record.

    That would be the voting record where he voted against the Brady Assault weapon ban and against shutting down gun shows and against magazine size limits, right?

    Dave

  • mike in va

    Let’s take a look. Ron Paul gives a large part of his federal compensation package back to the Treasury or does not spend it (our money, folks).
    John McCain will not even follow his own campaign finance law. Who is more honest? I’ll take a chance on the guy who speaks truth. McCain has shown he is nothing but a whore of a politician, willing to say or do ANYTHING to get elected, as will most of our elected reps. Dr. Paul just repeats his message. At least we know where Paul stands. McCain will do whatever the polls or his CFR handlers require. Lots of mininformation in this article. So sad for our country. Am reading the book “The Forgotten Man” about the ’20’s, ’30’s and ’40’s. Amazing how little politics has changed over the years. Hoover and Roosevelt really moved the “governmnet can fix your ills” mindset forward. Unforeseen fallout from these programs still poison us to this day. Check my facts, but I believe during this time that American Aluminum was targeted as a monopoly or with higher taxes and it was reporesented to the people as a large company taking advantage of employees and the consumer. This despite the fact that the price of aluminum fell during the twenty years prior to this government imposition? Folks, our government has become too large and is now dictating to US, rather than us dictating to THEM. We have created a class of professional politicians that do not have the best interests of the county at heart. My suggestion is to vote out all incumbents in almost every election cycle. One should not be able to have a career based on deceit and taxation of one’s countrymen. I mean, John Warner, Ted Kennedy? Over 40 years in congress for each of them is way too long. I am no fan of term limits but we also should not put up with a rigged election game that gives incumbents all the advantages.

  • Don

    Ron Paul’s lack of knowledge about foreign policy?
    What? Did you really say that? He’s the ONLY candidate that when he talks about foreign policy he uses details AND he is right: we are resented in the middle east ( and western europe ) because we occupy their countries. How many foreign countries have military bases in the U.S.? ZERO. Why? Because we’d never allow that crap! We’d be fighting mad if China tried to set up camp in the Gulf of Mexico for example. It’s not really rocket sceience. What is McCain’s reasoning? They hate us because we’re free and prosperous? Then why dont’ they hate Switzerland and the nordic countries and Canada? Oh that’s right. McCain said once that they hate us because we are THE MOST free and prosperous. Who are the brain dead morons that hear that and go “that’s right!”?

  • Chuck

    I grew up under Reagan, voted for Bush Sr., voted Libertarian when my party ran Bob Dole, voted for Bush Jr. twice and have supported Republicans at every level of government from local to state to national. I’m a Conservative first and a Republican second. I say all this to prove my credentials and put the leadership of the Republican party on notice. I will NOT support McCain or any other RINO in the future and nothing you wrote in the article will change it. The Neo-cons and RINO’s have control of the party and they have destroyed it by not governing by the principles they supposedly believe in. Not only am I not voting McCain, I will influence every Conservative to do the same. If the Republican party is not punished for saying one thing and then doing the opposite, just pray tell how will the party be forced to change? McCain epitomizes every thing wrong in the Republican party.

  • Chuck
  • Carole

    Mr. Nalle:

    You would not recognize a real Conservative republican because you are poisoned by neocon lack of principle.

    Dr. Paul is the most principled legislator in DC-dare I say, the most principled politician this country has seen in years.

    I will not feel sorry for you later when you regret that you maligned a true Republican and patriot who loves America.

  • Richard

    Wow! Dave, if you’re going to title something like this a “reality check” you might want to get a better grip on reality.

  • Chuck

    I wish I had said this but Jack Hunter does a good job of beating me to the punch on this one.

    The dividing line on the Right these days IS foreign policy and war. How come someone like Sean Hannity will kiss a technocratic, socialized medicine-loving moderate like Mitt Romney’s ass, even calling him a “conservative?” Because Romney supports an interventionist foreign policy. Why did Hannity spend the early part of the primary heavily promoting Rudy Giuliani? – an anti-gun, partial birth abortion supporting social liberal, who is to the left of Hillary Clinton on gay marriage and a host of other issues? Because Rudy wants to stay in Iraq and wants to start bombing Iran.

    Despite McCain/Feingold, his amnesty proposal, his signing on to stop “global warming,” and a host of other liberal misdeeds, most Republicans will vote for McCain over Obama for one reason and one reason only – foreign policy. They vote for McCain because he’s good on the “War on Terror.” It’s all he’s got – and McCain’s entire candidacy is that of the war candidate. Jack Hunter sums it up nicely!

  • Carlo C

    Dave Nalle you are corrupted journalist, and therefore ANTI-AMERICAN.

    Shame on you!!

    Carlo C.
    Miami, FL

  • James Orleans

    This is little more than a weak hit piece. If the good docter were so irrelevant, I wonder why so much effort is expended calling him and his supporters names.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Well, James. I take the time to write about Ron Paul and his supporters because I’m tired of fanatics. I’ve had enough of people who use ideology instead of reason, and the Paulistas are just another group for me to add on to my list along with the religious right and islamic radicals and earthfirsters and various forms of dogmatic socialists.

    Some Ron Paul supporters do manage to think for themselves and want to move beyond the hate speech and divisiveness to actually improve and reform the GOP. I stand right with them. But as demonstrated in the responses to this and other articles, most of them – the ones I call Paulistas (Paulbots being played out) are the worst kind of irrational sheep repeating meaningless mantras from JBS leaflets and generally polluting the political environment.

    So repeat your more palatable talking points here, and then send me your real thoughts in email about how the jews are secretly controlling the administration and McCain and the media and the banks. Your own hate and irrationality damns you in the eyes of rational, freedom-loving people everywhere.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Why is there even a debate here?

    It doesn’t matter who’s pro-war and who’s anti-war; who will follow the constitution and who is the better foreign policy wonk.

    JOHN MCCAIN IS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE.

    RON PAUL LOST.

    HE IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE.

    NOT ENOUGH REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR HIM; HE’S FINISHED, DONE.

    IT’S OVER.

  • Dan in South Africa

    Dave, once again your analysis is flawed. This time semantically.

    You opine that by “any normal definition, the war ended within a matter of a few months.” My dictionary defines of war as a “state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties.”

    Most sensible people would agree that the dictionary definition is accurate.

    Therefore, to any sane and coherent observer, the Iraq War, which has cost the US more than 4000 military deaths and half a trillion dollars, has still not ended. And this enormous cost is mounting daily!

    You disappoint me Dave, but then I’d guess that war is merely an abstract term to you. You’ve obviously never served in the armed services and never fired a shot in anger.

  • Chuck

    Let’s just see how many Republican votes he gets in November, Clavos. If the leadership of the Republican party throws the evangelicals and the libertarian, constitutionalists under the bus and tries to replace it with independents and democrats, see where it will end up. I predict a huge loss for the Republicans.

  • http://www.911blogger.com Mekt_Ranzz

    “and the reprehensible 9/11 Truth movement”

    Firstly, just to be clear, much of the 9/11 truth movement supports Ron Paul because he is open to limited government and government transparency. NOT because he believes 9/11 was an inside job (which he does not).

    That said, Mr. Nalle, and considering that you think the 9/11 truth movement, of which I am a proud member, is “reprehensible”, what I want to know is when are you going to write an article about us?

    Come on, I know you want to. You probably even have your little Popular Mechanics book with a bunch of highlighted portions ready and raring to go . . .

    Eloy Gonzalez II
    9/11 truth activist

  • Matthew

    So, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you believe that a bloc of voters 1.1 million strong is a “fringe”. Lol. You are pretty dumb.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    If the leadership of the Republican party throws the evangelicals and the libertarian, constitutionalists under the bus

    Makes no sense. If they were to throw the evangelicals under the bus they’d win over a lot of the libertarians they’d otherwise lose.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    That said, Mr. Nalle, and considering that you think the 9/11 truth movement, of which I am a proud member, is “reprehensible”, what I want to know is when are you going to write an article about us?

    I already have. Several of them in fact.

    So, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you believe that a bloc of voters 1.1 million strong is a “fringe”.

    Less than 1% of the electorate? What would you call it?

    Dave

  • logicprobe

    This November we will have the usual false choice between Left Wing Socialism and Right Wing Socialism. Take your pick, flip a coin, whatever.

    Ron Paul is certainly not perfect, but he’s not a socialist, and that’s why so many of us supported his candidacy.

  • Clavos

    “Let’s just see how many Republican votes he gets in November, Clavos.”

    No argument from me, Chuck. I didn’t say the Repubs would win the general, only that McCain is their nominee, so debate about who’s the better man between Paul and McCain is pointless.

    Obama is the next prez. he will be even if the Republicans were able to resurrect Abe Lincoln as their nominee.

    And I hope the Republican party does throw the evangelicals under the bus; that should have been done long ago.

  • Chuck

    Makes no sense…ok Dave, Answer this then.

    and also this today.

    You think I’m not making sense? Am I unreasonable to deduce this from these articles that the direction of the McCain campaign is not exactly what I said.

    Riigghhtt!

  • Chuck

    Why don’t you McCain supporters come on out of the democrat closet and quit pretending to be conservative. Hehehe.

  • Chuck

    While the Constitution is used as toilet paper by both so-called mainstream parties,the Republicans and the Democrats; we blog and argue and fiddle while the republic burns. How sad!

  • Chuck

    I enjoyed the blogging. I agree with some of your statements and disagree with others. For brevity sake I will use your own words to illustrate the main difference of opinion I have with you.

    Dave says:

    “We all want change for the better and would like to have a nation which honors liberty and individual rights as a first priority. The hard truth is that you can’t accomplish those goals with every branch of the government under the control of a Democratic party dominated by socialists and internationalists. They’ll throw away our sovereignty and our rights and there will be no one to stop them.”

    The only problem with this statement is you fail to point out that the Republican party is dominated by socialists and internationalists too.

  • CD

    Truth bit me in the ass. I’m voting for Dr. Paul no matter what. It’s better than staying at home doing nothing.

    The Republicans need war to divert our attention away from the taxing, spending and lack of respect for the rule of law.

  • http://evilbankers.com Drumz

    Dave, accepting money from any industry that kills or spies for the Department of Defense is “pro-war,” regardless of how one votes. Votes don’t talk. Money talks. Nobody said it was the ONLY consideration, either. Just the main one.

    Obama didn’t vote for the war, but voted FOR the “Patriot Act.” thus benefitting all of the contractors who support him.

    More importantly, Obama received the MOST money from war contractors – do your research. You have no business writing about politics if you didn’t know that.

    Do you think it was any coincidence that Obama met with AIPAC the same day he locked the nomination? The same day Israel starts rattling sabers against Iran?

    Even the Hollywood liberals and San Francisco activists complain about the “Jewish-run media.” Do you think an Obama/AIPAC neverending war in the middle east might help the media both profit AND brainwash the masses? How about McCain’s 100-year war? Yup, media benefits again.

    Ron Paul and that boring old peace and liberty will never sell commercials on the war media channels. But, he seems to generate lots of traffic to free media like your blog. Hmm… Go figure. A bit ironic, eh?

    But, again Dave, you failed to acknowledge that the media DID play a part in that. Just like you’re doing now. Accentuate the negative, eliminate the positive.

    As for McCain and his “military adventurism,” I can sum that up in just two of his quotes … “I hate the gooks,” and “Bomb, bomb, bomb… bomb, bomb Iran.” This guy was locked in a dungeon for crying out loud – his perspective does NOT represent America.

  • Chuck

    Ron Paul is the only person in politics that has actually voted against the socialists and internationalist you correctly point out, Dave.

  • Chuck

    BTW…The lettertogop.com sig count is now almost 6,000. Keep spreading the site around and I predict alot more sigs.

  • http://blog.garrettjreed.com Garrett J Reed

    Dave,
    I would just like to thank you for responding, and to pardon my self for the dig on Texas, and I am aware that Ron Paul is from there. But I’m not saying if that detracts of exacerbates the embarrassment of hailing from the long horn state. You assumed, brashly and incorrectly, that because I hold certain opinions about your government’s constitution, which I have read, that I must be an ignorant paulionian. When the truth is I’m a American Student/Instructor who lives in Costa Rica, and as far as ignorant I do hold a bachelors in Political Science, a BA in International Business/Latin American Studies,and BS in Geological Science from San Diego State University. I also will be completing my thesis for in Soil Sciences this summer and graduating from California Poly-technical University, San Luis Obispo.
    But obviously no one knows as much as you. So I bow to your brain.

  • Mark A. Messer

    Mr. Nalle,
    Voted for Ron Paul in PA. I don’t believe a word that comes out of McCain’s mouth or Obama’s. They both the wear the same empty suit but just have a different tie. I do believe that the GOP has lost its way and is unlikely to return to its senses. Since turning 18 in ’97 I have consistently voted republican. This will be the first time that I will look into third party candidates and write in’s.

    I really do not know what you represent as Ron Paul’s “wacko” positions. Name them and reveal your own ignorance or extremism.

  • Tom Nicholson

    I think Ron Paul and all Americans that are awake enough to see that his message is correct, are getting swcrewed. Even an idiot can see, that when Dr. Paul speaks, what he is saying is the truth. We need this man desporatly in the white house to put this country back on the right track. If anyone votes for a Dem or Rep. just because that is thier party, then we deserve exactly what we get. This man won every debate, raised more money than anyother candidate, and has the nation at heart. Do somthing right, just ounce in your life and live free like we should be.

  • Tom Nicholson

    I have lived in this country as a natural born citizen for 62 yrs. I have seen this country get worse every elction year because the people that run for election, only tell you what they think you want to hear, just to get elected. Same old message year after year, come on people wake up…can’t you see that the Ron Paul message is different than the rest. I have been hearing that same message my whole life and no change. Lets do it right, lets make the government go by the constitution again and horness thier power and do it right…we are going down big time if we don’t…The value of dollar alone will tell you that…C’on, Please wake up…Please.

  • Tom

    “McCain has never presented himself as ‘pro-war’ — that’s just their interpretation. The actual war in Iraq is over and McCain is not currently advocating any other new wars. That McCain supports keeping troops in Iraq until the country is past its current troubles is more of an anti-war position, since our presence there reduces the level of violence and the risk of Iranian invasion and a full-scale war.”

    This is classic! Thanks a lot PoliSci professor. “since our presence there reduces the level of violence” I had to re-quote it was so good.

    Do you pay any attention? The only reason there is fighting in Iraq is because we are there, if we leave, the violence stops, said by their ambassadors to our congress last week. But its tough to watch the news when you have all these convictions clouding up your mind…

    WORST ARTICLE EVER

  • Andrew

    I just signed the letter.

  • Mike

    Bait, switch. Bait, switch.

  • http://thentruthwillout.blogspot.com Dixon Cannon

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for adding the link to the letter! I’ve now signed it and passed it on to those I know as well. It has well over 5000 signatures at the time of this writing. I don’t know what the point of your article was supposed to be – another slam against our Constitution and those who support it, I suppose. But the net effect is the mass circulation of the letter to the GOP and signatures from many who would have never otherwise seen it. A good many of us plan to write in Ron Paul anyway in November. This letter will help solidify that fact in the minds of the GOP elite who are unwilling to acknowledge the Constitution, Ron Paul’s leadership and the thousands of his supporters that will NOT vote for John McCain. Thank you once again! -dixon cannon

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Hmm, Dixon Cannon – nice name! Sounds like a character from a 1950s pulp novel…

    ‘Dixon Cannon: Private Eye.’

    :-)

  • Swing Voter

    As with Ross Perot, Ron Paul’s supporters will decide who wins this election. The rest of the Republicans can either embrace Ron Paul or lose. Their choice. I’m guessing as they’re the 1 of 4 idiots in this country that continue to support Bush, they won’t be smart enough to change course. So it looks like a wrap for Obama to me.

  • http://www.occasionalstring.com ski bum

    It seems a waste of time to nitpick all the blighted and manipulative statements in this article.

    Why don’t we all encourage a Paul-McCain debate?

    That’s something both sides should agree on, right?

  • http://www.occasionalstring.com ski bum

    It seems a waste of time to nitpick all the blighted and manipulative statements in this article.

    Why don’t we all encourage a Paul-McCain debate?

    That’s something both sides should agree on, right?

  • Mike M.

    “Writing articles about Paul and the Paulistas is rather like picking at a scab. It’s painful and disgusting, but somehow impossible to resist.
    Plus, it gets me all kinds of hits when I’m feeling very lonely and empty inside.

    Dave”

    There, fixed it for you…

  • Travis

    OMG .. I got all the way to page 3 and then you called Ron Paul “anti-capitalist”. You are the dumbest, most ignorant, uniformed retard to ever attempt political commentary. You haven’t a clue what Ron Paul advocates. He is the best defender of Capitalism ever to reach this level of exposure in my lifetime. You had a couple okay points in retaliation to the letter from Paul’s supporters, but you really need to get your head out of your ass and pay attention. 20 years from now after you are a proud citizen of the USRA (United Socialist Republic of America) why don’t you take a moment and read Ron Paul’s book to learn a little bit about capitalism and what it is supposed to look like. Until then enjoy your two party system of Democratic socialism/fascism (Democrat/Republican).

  • mgb

    Ahhh! The old “lesser of two evils” argument!!!

    These two parties depend on that argument for survival. “We have to elect McCain because he’s a little bit better!” This explosion of bureaucracy will continue under either administration.

    I agree with your points about electability, but come on, Ron Paul advocates “anti-corporate, anti-capitalist populism”? Are you out of your mind? He’s the only candidate who understands capitalism. It is not anti-corporate to put a check on how much influence can had on policy by corporations with enough money to get a seat at the table. That is why the authors of the Constitution warned against the existence of a Central Bank. Capitalism demands a seperation between government and the economy. You are well misinformed on this.

    Ron Paul may be flawed as a candidate, but you miss the point. His candidacy is about less government. Not no government. How is that not republican? What’s republican about increasing the size of government 27% in 8 years? Since the war is over, what exactly needs to happen for us to get out? How long can we afford to maintain this foriegn policy of nation building? How can we justify paying interest on our government’s debts to a privately owned Central Bank? These are valid questions that no one else is asking.

    You offer a lot of misrepresentations Dr. Paul’s positions and attack him personally. The letter is certainly flawed, but your response to it makes you sound misguided and misinformed.

  • Nick

    The Iraq people dont even want us there so why are we. And terrorism isnt a gender or a nationality, its a way of thinking, you cant just have a genocide, therefore you will never rid the world or even a single country of terrorism. You cant destroy a way of thinking. There have been terrorist attacks since the begining of estabished countries. Anyone who is still in support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is pro-war. We need an imediate withdraw. They cant take care of themselves, they have a president dont they? Dictator whatever you want to call it, let him deal with it. If this was honestly a real war, it would have been over the week it started. This is The United States. They are a raindrop compared to us. If they were a real threat we’d blow them up like nothing. They dont have nething on us. But its not a real war we are their for oil and power, we arnt fighting their army we are fighting them. People are coming out of their houses to kill our soldiers. If some other country came here to “help” like we do for iraq. Then we would be the ones coming out of our houses to fight, not because its a legit war but because its an aggressive invasion. There are a million more points i can make but im tired of typing now but I could go on for hours on why we need to leave. The bottom line is anybody who is still for the war is not capable of running our country. If you cant acknowledge the main problem this country is on a downfall then you have no right stepping foot into the whitehouse. and for those who think we cant pull out right away, you think that because the administrators have told you (not personally probably from cnn or fox or something) it will be a disaster and they wont be able to stand by themselves, well those people are the same people who said it would be a cake walk, why should we listen to them they have been wrong the whole time. Im not saying vote Ron Paul, im just saying you do have a brain and i wish some to think for themselves and put the logic togather enough to vote smart. John McCain is the dumbest vote you can cast.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Ron Paul’s supporters will decide who wins this election.

    As of last count Paul had gotten what, less than 1 million popular votes?

    Lots of loonies posting on the internet doesn’t actually mean lots of real support.

    Dave

  • http://www.gunnersykes.com/ Gunner Sykes

    The thing I like best about Ron Paul is that his very existence rankles someone in this “sinister cabal of superior writers.”

    That has to be worth a vote or two.

  • Nick

    I think hes at a littl over 1.1 million. And you have to remember that like 14 states or something like that had caucusses and not primarys. and caucusses only show like 10% of the population. So if every state had a primary and not a caucuss he would probably be around 1.7 million

  • kenny

    thanks for writing about the letter, we are getting alot of signers from here;)

    Read it,Sign it and Spread it http://www.lettertogop.com

    you will have contact info when needed;) it hasn’t even been released to press yet,the egg hasn’t even been cracked open, SPREAD FAR AND WIDE

  • Tony

    Mr. Nalle,

    Your article is typical for a neocon. This is one republican voter you, and your presumed nominee McCain has not conned.

  • Randall Underwood

    When I read this this is what I take from it. The last gasp of a Neo Con. It is written as to appear just plain reasonable. It is meant to come across as, ” after all, we all know Ron Paul is wacky, and McCain is just a solid good guy” Its presumptious and transparent. This movement to get the Republican party back inline with the tennents of the original Republican party doesnt stop with this election. This globalist, interventionist, big government, frakenstein posing as the GOP is in it’s last throws. And nothing will drive that point home better than when Obama beats the pants off of McBush. Neo Con, your days are over. We want our party back, and we HAVE JUST BEGUN!

  • kenny

    dave open your eyes, you call ron paul supporters loony?? look in the mirror ;)

  • TC

    “Putting aside the fact that our trade deficits are smaller than they have been in decades” You are incredibly wrong. The trade deficit is over 5% of GDP and the modest improvement is 2007 has been completely wiped out by the rally in crude prices. Please leave the complex topics to the deep thinkers. You can return to watching pro-wrestling. Thanks

  • Lumpy

    Please. Ron Paul people. Stop the insanity. Get professional help. Go back on your meds.

  • kegokkes

    ron paul is an idea. mccain has no ideas.

  • Barry Freed

    Whether or not Mcain and Bush hate each other is irrelevant, the point is that they hold nearly identical positions on every issue.

    Your contention that perpetuating the occupation of Iraq is somehow an anti-war position is truly delusional. The US invasion and occupation continues to strengthen Iran. They are laughing at us as we squander the precious blood of our young people and treasure of our nation while fueling extremism.

    You and your fellow neo-cons have been full of predictions, every one of which has been proven false and has had disastrous consequences for our country.

    It amazes me how proven failures and frauds are still spouting such ignorance. I hope you can smarten up before reality cracks you in the face.

  • Marc

    I have resisted the urge to respond to your last few anti-Paul posts, but your “everyone is an ignoramus except me” attitude finally got to me. I see you jumped on the Ron Paul comment bandwagon, probably after seeing how high up in Google news search results NolanChart was rising. Anyway, your flippant dismissal of the Austrian school of economics demands rebuttal. How anyone can defend our current mainstream pseudo-classical/Keynesian theories of economics, with the simplistic assumptions of cause-effect and no thought to the fact that people are by and large motivated by their own diverse interests, and not simple, predictable reasons promoted by those esteemed economists is beyond me. Do you honestly believe inflation can be controlled by bumping the interest rate? Seems more like steering a boat by pointing at the wheel from across the room. My primary reason for supporting Ron Paul is his recognition of the fact that monetary policy has far more impact on the lives of average Americans than fiscal policy, yet NO ONE except Dr. Paul dares to even mention it, for fear of having their collar yanked. If the Fed was designed to keep a check on inflation, does their dismal track record not speak volumes? Any normal business that has done such a poor job (about 96% devaluation of the dollar) would have failed after far less than 95 years. That is just one example of a failed institution that politicians refuse to admit is past it’s time, and our government is full of such institutions. When things don’t work, we need to abandon them, not keep them for nostalgia’s sake. Oh yes, there is that small group of bankers that makes all that money…

  • Chris Bieber

    You defenders of the Faith in and of The State and its actions DONE IN YOUR NAME(with most of them(not of course the Executive Orders and Signing Statements and SPP agreements) voted FOR by you our your patriotic conservative OATHTakers promising to OBEY the limits and rules of the Constitution and your/their Bolshevik Party edicts and diktats-thanks for your Skinner Box mazeracing-like “defending”. You will all get your promised reward of a bigger slice of cheese following the Republican Triumph in November.

    In similarly conditioned response you AnimalFarm-ish bleat en masse(look at the numerous(mostly monosyllabic emotive rants and ad hominum inferences) that you PAULITES-TARDS-BOTS blahblahblahblah…..

    Of course this last 2 years has NOT been about Ron Paul the DOCTOR or 10x ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE

    It about the message of freedom so eloquently enunciated to oblivious GOPers and moderators of websites by Doctor Paul and his warnings of the consequences of the BIPARTISAN imperialism and fascism implanted on our country, culture, the families of the THOUSANDS of dead US servicepeople in that patriotic mission accompllished and Victoriously ENDED AUMF invasion and Soviet Like occupation and now bankrupt Treasury.

    Our and Dr Paul’s freedom message and warnings will NOT subside into sheeplike surrender to the McCain Matrix(or assimilation into the GOP Borg) and cease. We will continue our telling the American people about freedom and liberty.

    We will use weapons of “journalistic” Mass Education on such non-vapid and essential “news? sites and “journalistic” havens of truth and honesty as Mr. Nalle’s sinister cabal???????.

    Until the collapse.

    Chris in LElsinore CA
    Not A Republican…again….4x time…oh well..

  • Deborah

    Excuse me, but you must reside in “Never Never Land”
    Ask our troops who are on their 4th tour if the war is over….And as far as McCain is concerned…He is ready to blow up the world, and proud of it. Do some real homework!

  • David

    I think it’s outrageous that you think Ron Paul doesn’t have a clue about economics or foreign policy.

    There’s too much power in Washington DC. John McCain is not the cure.

  • neoconned

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!! you have GOT to be f**king KIDDING me with this drivel you just spewed forth.

  • Dawn

    Thanks for the link – I just signed the letter

  • http://www.alphavilledecoder.org Jahfre Fire Eater

    Another long article full of opinions on topics the author obviously has no knowledge in…but writing about Ron Paul is sure to boost the readership stats.

    Disagreement is fine but come on man, you gotta base it on something other than your personal pet peeves or you’re no better than the Paulistas you so delight in riding on the coat tails of.

    If you want to get any respect at all you have to show some glimmer of insight, show that you cared enough about your article to make some effort to learn something valid about it rather than just parrot the same brain dead glop that comes from talk radio Republican programming. I’m guessing from your depth and maturity that you are still in High School so you still have plenty of time to find something you’re good at or to make an effort at being good at this.
    Jahfre Fire Eater

  • http://truthnews.com.au/radio/wordpress Wow

    Wow this article is full of so much bigited Mis information it could make anyones head spin.
    I always trusted this blog but wow this is a really dumb article.

  • Alex

    Ron Paul is what America needs. he is perfect. Everybody would win under the policies he would put in place. just check him out at ronpaul.com

    -Alexander P, PFC USMC

  • Clavos

    Reading this thread really drives home just how inferior the American public school system has become.

  • Omegis

    Omegis’s litmus test for BS internet reporting: when ~20% of the comments are made by the author defending his own piece. So far you’re at 16.8% with 19/113. Keep it up Dave. I’ll write something a tad bit more serious when I get off of work.

  • kenny

    http://www.lettertogop.com READ IT, SIGN IT and SPREAD IT:)

  • Kyle

    16.8% That’s outstanding! That’s what, at least 3 times the percentage that Ron Paul would pull in the general election!

  • Chris Riffert

    I guess the internet is good for letting any idiot post their unsupported opinions. The Ron Paul letter and this article are proof positive. Incidentally, that is the only proof of anything you will find in either. Evidence seems to be in short supply.

    That being said, I am not sure how anyone can really complain about limited government. But Dave Nalle has found a way. Don’t worry–you will get your big government and we will all live happily ever after.

  • Chris Riffert

    Kip-

    a loss is a loss…at least uner Paul the party would have some principle to stand on

  • johnnycumonyourdaughtersface

    hahahahahahaha!!! What a pathetic retort on your part David. None of that neo-con magic is working any more buddy. Everybody knows the neo-con game is up and they are going to be crawling off under the slimey rocks they spawned from.

  • Habit

    I was taught to always cite my sources; I just typed in my comment, listed several youtube videos as proof of my contentions, but your site won’t let me post it that way. Therefore anybody who wants to check out the validity of what I say can go to youtube and search for videos by topic, okay.
    You say Bush and McCain actively hate one another. Get real. There are several youtube videos of them hugging. Are they not related through marriage?
    You say McCain is not “pro-war”. Are you talking about Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran McCain? That video is available at youtube, as well.
    You say his temper is limited to getting snippy with reporters. There are several youtube videos about his temper, including hitting someone, getting nose to nose with people, etc. And definitely view the one by former Senator Bob Smith who says McCain’s temper puts our Country at risk…
    And Nelson Linder of the Austin, Texas NAACP who has known Ron Paul for many years says Ron Paul is not racist–I think he would know. There’s a youtube video about that!
    And Ron Paul is an EXPERT on economics, okay. It’s our current foreign policy that’s isolationist in nature; Ron Paul espouses talking with, trading with , visiting other countries..but no tangling alliances, PER THE CONSTITUTION, something he took an oath to uphold and consistently does uphold. If only the rest of them were so honorable!
    So, I’d just like to say your little propaganda tactics are not working, okay?
    If anybody wants to know the truth about Ron Paul a good place to start would be with his book, “The Revolution, a Manifesto…”

  • General Custer

    That must be some GOOD stuff !

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Everyone but Dave:

    Dave is a shill. He has no journalistic merit. The only thing that his mindless neo-con rants prove is that we are right on point.

    For a real intellectual exchange on these issues go to youtube.com and search for “Larry McDonald” a former congresman from Georgia. The 1983 CNN episode with Tom Braden is worth the 20 min.

    At least CFR member Tom Braden is not a minor league wanna-be.

  • Cindy D

    @#55

    Garrett J Reed you expect anyone to take you seriously?

    “Socialism” as in government enforced and sponsored redistribution of wealth.

    Where do you get your ideas?

  • Kyle

    Bahahahaha.. the “s” word has finally been dropped. Congratulations, Robert. Continue the good fight against the CFR, the NAU, the 9/11 conspirators, Agent Smith, and whatever other fictional villains you’re afraid of.

  • Tom Jones

    First of all lets remember this is no war, and there never has been. There has been a Military action but no war. A Declaration of war by Congress would not have allowed the U.S. to have more mercenaries in Iraq than we have soldiers. It would not have allowed the oil companies into Iraq, nor allowed them the great profits that they have now.

    All you have to ask yourself is which candidates are telling you the truth on one simple issue. Why is the price of gas so high? Obama and Mccain both blame it on other countires where Ron Paul is the only one to tell you it is becuase of our debt and the value of the dollar. The other two canadidates are both willing to let million of americans suffer along with countless industries so they can keep spending our money. Ron Paul is the only one who wants to really give it back to us.

  • Paul

    McSame is not pro-war? You must be joking. His entire existence at this point is about the current, and soon to be future wars.

    Remember “bomb bomb bomb Iran?” Geez…

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Why do the Paulistas say the same things over and over and over again. Whoever comes up with their talking points lacks imagination.

    Let me sum up:

    Stay in Iraq 100 years
    bomb bomb bomb Iran
    McBush/McInsane/McLame
    Everyone is a Neocon but Paul and his drones

    If that is the best they can come up with no wonder Paul is an also-ran.

    Dave

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    First: It seems that better than half of the Paulistas commenting here are either illiterate or, at best, have no typing skills, or are just lazy. Why don’t some of you us a fucking dictionary or use any of the hundreds of spelling and grammatical sources available on the net? Or do you all prefer to wear your apparent ignorance like a badge of honor?

    Second: YouTube? People who discount Wikipedia as a source of information refer to YouTube as a place to get the truth? How idiotic is that?

    Again, Dave and I don’t agree on much, but I have found that he is far better informed about most political issues than about 98% of the people who post or comment here, often myself included. I may not agree with him, but I certainly don’t doubt either his sincerity or his patriotism.

    Most of you Paulistas who have attached yourselves to Ron Paul’s star seem to be cultish in the extreme. Talk about brainwashing. I wonder if Paul is aware of just how looney most of his ardent supporters are?

    B-tone

  • Matt

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  • Kyle

    I can’t seem to get past the “laughing” stage

  • sts

    I am glad this editor wrote that mccain is not pro-war in the beginning. I did not have to read another word after that.
    lets see…
    mccains favorite song..
    bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!!
    And he sings it ith a smile!
    He voted for the war, he voted to continue it, and he wants to stay there for 100 years..
    I believe this editor decided to pick on Ron Paul supporters with untrue rhetoric because he knew he would get alot of responses.
    His boss probably told him he was going to get laid off due to lack of interest.
    This Ron Paul article probably saved his job thanks to the ron paul supporters.

  • Cindy D

    @#108

    Why don’t we all encourage a Paul-McCain debate?

    huh?

    any chance you’ve heard of something called “reality”?

  • sts

    to the editor:
    give this link to your boss, along with the article you wrote here.
    this ill debunk every word you wrote, ith tons of factual evidence.

  • Lumpy

    What would be the commercial value of attracting Paul supporters as readers?

    A guy who lives in a Chevy Luv van and eats pigeons and ketchup for dinner and visits the site while downloading porn at the local library can’t exactly afford to support the site’s advertisers.

  • Kyle

    Infowars? Infowars?!?! And here I thought Paul’s supporters were part of some lunatic fringe.

  • Clavos

    To sts, #153:

    Your keyboard seems to be missing the “W” key…

  • Clavos

    So lets see…

    We’ve got an army of knuckle-dragging troglodytes who want a racist running against a Black man in the general election.

    Well, it would certainly make for an interesting campaign season.

    Pit the racist antisemitic hick against Obama and I (and millions of others) will definitely vote Democratic for the first time in my life.

  • http://www.revolutionmarch.com Michelle

    Thanks for writing this article! It surely brings many readers and makes many posts here. Wow, how amazing! We have many valid arguments that John McCain cannot perform the essential job functions as president. I have seen him talking so delusional and flip flops A LOT! He admits knowing little about US economy plus he screwed up with FEC, the financial loan for campiagn. Did u know he has severe skin cancer? Is that who we want him to lead our country?
    I’m not happy with how corporate media is totally regulated by CFR members (corrupted government people) Free of Press do not exist in their department, how sad….
    Well, we have a lot of works to do… de-program your mentality from being brainwashed by media propagandas.
    I got to go and do many things, get ready for Revolution March on July 12th!
    Long Live to Freedom, Peace and Prosperity!

  • Kyle

    Michelle: Please tell me English is not your first language.

    Also, if you want anyone to take you seriously (and this goes for all Ron Paul supporters), shut up about the CFR. You obviously know nothing about them other than what you hear on paranoid conspiracy liar sites (hint: they are a think tank with no policy-making power, not “corrupted government people”). Stop brainwashing yourselves with tripe from Alex Jones, JBS, et al.

  • Kyle

    On that note, I bet at least half of all Paulbots had no idea what the CFR was a year ago (or the Bilderberg Group for that matter), yet are now convinced that we are doomed – DOOMED! – if they are not stopped.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I must hang my head in shame as I discovered a typo in my rant against the poor writing of many of the Paulistas. I have at least a weak excuse as I had knee surgery yesterday and today is “hell day” as regards the pain that has bloomed with a vengeance since early this morning. Nevertheless, I apologize for my grammatical failure.

    Paul seems to have gathered behind him every incarnation of conspiracy nut. All of you who have lambasted Dave for his supposed audacity or lack of knowledge regarding Dr. Ronney should at least try to write intelligibly and minimize the use of cryptic acronyms and other references with which most readers have no familiarity. Not everyone is in the “club.” Most of us don’t even know the secret Paulista handshake.

    I believe Clavos is probably correct regarding a likely November victory for Obama. Understand that that comes hard for Clav who has admittedly been an unswerving Rep virtually all of his voting life. But, above that, Clav, I believe, is a realist, and he’s not saying he’s particularly happy about the situation.

    At this juncture I won’t predict an Obama victory, but it could truly be a landslide unless McCain can more effectively separate himself from Bush and elucidate his positions on the economy, our presence in Iraq, etc. in a manner that will appeal to a majority of voters.

    I don’t see Paul, Nader, Barr, McKinney or any other third party candidate having any substantial influence in the November balloting.
    You Paulistas are having delusions of grandeur.

    B-tone

  • Baronius

    Ugh. Baritone, it’s a terrible choice between the super-strong painkillers and the super-strong pain. Best of luck over the next few days. It does get better.

  • BT

    Suggestion: Do not put the word reality in anything you write from today forward, it kills the flavor of the fiction!

    This fictitious attempt at a hit piece has brightened my day. I was in need of a good laugh, and I must say that the last paragraph following the sea of tripe almost had me exploding in laughter. Thanks to the author as I needed the pick me up!

    He mentions liberty, individual rights, changing our nation for the worst, and lastly appoints McCain as the champion of slowing the march of socialism and tyranny to buy us some time. I was in tears laughing and enjoy the radical ranting of this neocon cheerleader, and his forward states that he has been a capital hill staffer (no surprise there) and I would assume he received his indoctrination there.

    The article is long and choked full of inaccuracies, slander, and ridiculous allegations, and most of Paul’s ideas are compared to present failed policy, which this individual is lobbying the reader for; absolutely hilarious!

    I also enjoyed to the fullest the information that McCain was “electable” and I thought about that long and hard. McCain’s campaign was over, finished, trashed, and buried after his McKennedy amnesty bill, but the media brought him back with a fury. Obtaining electability through media propaganda, and they wonder why he can’t raise funds from the general public?

    I will certainly be reading more from this author as I am a great fan of fiction, and an even greater fan of failed neo conservative attempts at misinformation. I will be writing a critique of this authors work back on our site, I hope you all will read and enjoy the breaking down of this article and the hilarity within. Thanks again to this author, without your continuous attempts to discredit an American patriot, the Ron Paul Revolution might just fade away, but knowing that there are those of you that continue to try and draw a bad picture of the most principled man in Washington, please continue, as we appreciate your support. Even though the article above is an outright lie it has captured the attention of many, and those whose eyes are open can see that you have been mislead as I once was. God bless you sir, and by all means continue your work, as without people like you, comedians would have to work hard to come up with political satire. Perhaps in a future article you can argue the fact the world is flat, and argue that case with more lies, deceit, misinformation, and continuing tripe, an absolute classic in the making! I can hardly wait.

    BT

  • Jim

    I have a question to all-

    if/when we attack iran what will all the mccain/obama supporters say in defense of this,

    and what will all the RP supporters say, other than i told you so ect…

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    I have deleted the comments made under the names William Berg and Bill Morris, which came from the same, now banned, IP address for threatening violence towards and posting under the name of a Blogcritics writer. This kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.

    Christopher Rose
    Blogcritics Comments Editor

  • paul revere II

    Dave- [personal attack deleted]

    read a few history books- FACT Almost all wars are based on lies John Mexicain is helping to perpetuate!

    WAKE UP [personal attack deleted]!

  • Clavos

    Yet more evidence of the inferiority of the American school system.

  • zingzing

    paul revere II: “read a few history books- FACT Almost all wars are based on lies John Mexicain is helping to perpetuate!”

    is that even possible?

  • Kyle

    I’m sure what “paul revere II” meant to say was “watch a few more history videos on YouTube”

  • Matthew

    Congressman Paul’s 1.1 million+ voters is plenty enough indication that things are going to change for the better and that the message and his campaign has had tremendous impact over the last year.

    You can call it the “fringe”. I call it the “first wave”.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Oh goood, more death threats from the Paulistas. I’ll have to go check my email to see if they spelled their threats correctly.

    What all of these fanatics seem not to get is that I’m about as close to a supporter as Ron Paul – or at least his more positive ideas – is likely to get within the more mainstream elements of the Republican party.

    I’m a libertarian Republican. I believe in eliminating as much government as possible and running our country on a firm financial basis. I believe in restoring our basic liberties which have been whittled away over the years. I’ve been working for years to try to implement some of the same changes they seek in the GOP.

    I write these articles to try to help bridge the gap between Ron Paul’s supporters and the mainstream of the Republican Party so that they might be able to become a positive force for change within the party. I desperately want them to succeed, because I think that they are the best lever we have to break the hold of the religious right on the party and move it back towards its basic principles.

    I also realize that the people we see responding here who I am now calling ‘Paulistas’ are NOT the main core of Paul’s supporters. They are not the campaign workers and they are not the delegates to state conventions who are working to accomplish something positive. People inside the Paul campaign have read my articles. They’ve contacted me about them. Hell, one of them was distributed on their mailing lists and essentially endorsed as good advice.

    Writing these articles and getting the kind of responses I have been getting also helps expose the problem which the commenters here represent. That has raised awareness of the problems within the campaign’s following which the serious activists are working to address. It has made them accutely conscious of the need to distance themselves from these extremists and of the need ultimately to separate the movement from Dr. Paul, despite the reverence many of them still hold for him.

    I may be getting death threats and having to deal with comments from idiots, but I believe that the evidence supports my belief that these articles are working and that they will help to contribute to a stronger and more positive movement for liberty within the GOP.

    Dave

  • Chris H

    McCain needs to watch this! Understand what the people in Iraq want and not what the neocons want.

  • Rox

    “The war in Iraq is over”

    Author is delusional…

  • Matthew

    Dave,

    Your defense mechanisms are awe-inspiring.

    Your initial comments indiacate both a “positivity bias” and a “self serving bias”.

    “Projection” would also be at the top of the list. That is to say, you are attributing your own unacceptable thoughts and feelings onto others. You are accusing RP supporters of insanity and division, yet here you are badly defending an article that has offended many people that have read it. Don’t you think that if this is the feedback you are recieving that you should react heathfully and reasses some of your article’s assumptions? You appear to be contributing to division and unbalance.

    Secondly, you seem to have constructed a “self-fulfilling prophecy”. That is to say, you have created a “false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come ‘true’. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning.”

    In other words, a prophecy declared as truth when it is actually false may sufficiently influence people, either through fear or logical confusion, so that their reactions ultimately fulfill the once-false prophecy.

    So you have used the RP supporters justified reactions to your unqualified statements as proof of you unqualified statements.

    If I was to say that your mother is a dog that has produced loud-mouthed and violent children and you were to respond by yelling at me and threatening me, I could easily use your reaction to verify my own claim. Viola, self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Try not to be too enamored by your own BS. Unwrap yourself from your little security blanket of false reality and actually engage people in reasonable, logical conversation.

  • Matthew

    BTW, your re-puke-lic of dave site looks like hell. Might want to go take care of that champ.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    If I was to say that your mother is a dog that has produced loud-mouthed and violent children and you were to respond by yelling at me and threatening me, I could easily use your reaction to verify my own claim. Viola, self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Matthew, if you were to say that to me, then as a rational and reasonable person I would respond in a rational way. I certainly wouldn’t yell or threaten. Therefore my reaction would disprove your claim.

    Your entire argument is specious. We are judged by our actions, and the behavior of the Paulistas in reaction to my relatively mild criticisms and often positive suggestions speaks for itself.

    Oh, and invest some time downloading a real browser like FireFox. I’m not responsible for the fact that you’re running Explorer on Windows 98.

    Dave

  • MrCool

    de consituton is lik so st000pid n stuf!1111

  • Cindy D

    Dave,

    Your next article needs a subtitle, something along the lines of:

    A Reality Check for the Ron Paul Fringe
    …or, Trolling for Frootloops

  • Clavos

    @#178:

    LOL!

    I like that one, Cindy!

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    As I’ve suggested the “fringe” RP worshippers have apparently elevated their chosen leader to the level of a god. In their eyes Ron Paul must shit roses and piss ambrosia water. By comparison Washington and Lincoln were lying, self gratifying child molesters.

    I certainly hope that the “Most Holy,” Most Reverend Doctor Ronney Paulie can live up to his followers’ super-hero expectations. I wonder if he bolts awake at say, three AM in a cold sweat wondering “What the hell have I done?”

    That threats have been made here is testament to just how flipped out some of you Paulistas are. I seriously doubt that the majority of Paul’s adherents are in that league, but just as with muslims and their radical, violent brethren, guilt by association may prevail.

    B-tone

  • Cindy D

    One of the Ron Paul supporters seems to have defected to an old Axl Rose thread :

    #87 — June 10, 2008 @ 18:05PM — MILLIE

    I HOPE YOU DO WIN THE VOTE AND I WILL VOTE FOR YOU
    AXL ROSE BECUASE WE DO NEED A NEW PRESIDENT AND
    I HOPE IT WILL BE YOU

    Please people, keep your hands inside the vehicle at all times.

  • Lars

    Dear Dave

    To me Ron Paul supporters seem to be a very diverse group of people. Some are very angry because they believe that great injustice is being done. Others are young and realize that the current system is not sustainable and won’t be able to support them when they get older. Others are old and have found new inspiration about politics which they gave up upon many years ago. I could go on and on. I believe you would be hard pushed to find a more diverse group of people.

    And yet, most articles I read talk of Paulites as if they are all the same. Why?

    Dave, when I read your article I got the same impression. Was it intentional and if so why?

    (and no English is not my first language)

  • Cindy D
  • http://www.johnmccainforum.com XZ

    Keep boosting Ron’s popularity — I think you should do a full review and chapter-by-chapter breakdown of his book, The Revolution a Manifesto.

    Thx for keeping people charged and the r3volution moving!

    See you all on johnmccainforum.com !

  • Cindy D

    You presume that everyone who disagrees with you would support John McCain?

    I would only ever consider voting for John McCain (whom I deplore) if someone like Ron Paul was running against him. At least he wouldn’t be actively promoting a society of the owners and their slaves.

  • Clavos

    “You presume that everyone who disagrees with you would support John McCain?”

    Not actually, Cindy.

    The site he names is anti John McCain.

  • Cindy D

    lol Clav,

    I didn’t realize as I didn’t go there. I simply assumed that the whole group was off to harass people at some John McCain site. Thanks!

    My apologies XZ.

  • Mattheww

    You defend Firefox like you defend McCain. Still, you ignore constructive criticism and justified reactions. I think my description of you in #174 was dead-on.

    Congratulations on discovering that you will get attention if you slander someone or something that inspires people, a typical revelation to most 10-12 years olds who have discovered the ability to blog and post youtube videos. Most abandon this tactic for more meaningful endeavors, such as telling the truth and unveiling social injustices. However you have yet to graduate from this niche. I wish for you the best in your climb from the muck, should you choose to take up such a task.

    I’m sure you have received the usual round of death threats. I’m sure you are used to it. Being your age and still spouting ignorance only leads me to believe that you are oblivious to healthy and constructive human interaction. Supporting McCain also lends itself to that same line of thinking.

  • Cindy D

    I’m sure you have received the usual round of death threats.

    Why would you say something like that to someone? And in the same sentence you accuse Dave of being oblivious to healthy and constructive human interaction? You are very creepy.

  • Clavos

    He’s right about Firefox, which really needs no defense; it stands on its own.

    Dave was kidding, right? You’re not still using WIN98?

    If you are, you’d better upgrade soon, or Gates will send his enforcers around to break your kneecaps any day now.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    To me Ron Paul supporters seem to be a very diverse group of people….And yet, most articles I read talk of Paulites as if they are all the same. Why?

    I can only speak to my own articles. This one addresses a specific document which comes from a specific segment of the Ron Paul movement. It really only applies to the Paul supporters who are rabidly anti-McCain. In my other articles I try to draw a clear distinction between the reasonable parts of the movement and the crazies. Take a look at my recent article Where Will Ron Paul Supporters Find a Home. It deals specifically with the different elements within the movement and recognizes that they are diverse.

    Dave

  • Cindy D

    I now know more about Ron Paul than I care to and some of the things I have discovered make me believe that the the only people who really fit with Ron Paul as a leader ARE the loonies.

    Ron Paul is a crackpot. He is an “intelligent designer” who doesn’t believe in evolution, and thinks schools should be able to teach this, he would repeal the 1964 civil rights act if he could, thinks any property owner should be able to discriminate against anyone based on anything including race, knowingly accepted contributions from the white supremacists–including former KKK grandwizard Don Black, opposes the separation of church and state, is pro-life, anti-gay, isolationist in his foreign policy, and is the candidate of choice for racists of every flavor including neo-nazis and white supremacists.

    In retrospect, this makes his claim about not knowing what was in the racist newsletters fairly suspect.

    I’m not sure how he “inspires” anyone who wouldn’t be swept into the first cult that approached them.

  • Cindy D

    In fact, I think a “reality check” is just what most Ron Paul supporters need.

  • Cindy D

    Ron Paul and The Patriot Movement.

    The Patriot Movement has been described as a collection of various groups including armed militias, common-law courts, white supremacists, right-wing parliamentary and Christian groups, anti-abortionists, and other assorted crack-pots.

    For those of you who don’t recall, this is the movement that spawned unibomber Timothy McVeigh.

    A example of “strict construction” of the constitution from an American Patriot Movement website on Citizenship:

    One should take careful note that the Citizens of the states of the Union are the only Citizens who possess all the rights, privileges, and immunities spoken of in the US Constitution, plus whatever additional rights are secured to them by their own state Constitutions….

    Prior to the Civil War, the southern states did not recognize blacks as persons who could become Citizens of their states. In fact it was well understood by the Citizens of these southern states that when their state Constitutions protected the right to own “property” or “chattel”, that right included holding slaves. That was exactly what the framers of these southern Constitutions had intended and so that understanding was accurate and factual.

    Ron Paul’s “strict construction” of the constitution coincides remarkably well with the warped construction of The Patriot Movement.

    The Patriot Movement Organization called The American Freedom Movement–located at http://www.americanpatriotmovement.com–has Ron Paul’s name on it–literally!

    See the website Original Intent to compare Ron Paul’s statements and platform with his colleagues in The American Patriot Movement.

    As usual, I have documented all the statements I have made in these two posts. I will be happy to provide the references should anyone want them.

    And there are other interesting things, like a copy of the only Ron Paul racist newsletter posted to the web at least the only remaining one (posted actually by a neo-nazi).

  • Cindy D

    I can see that my quote from the “Citizen” page above is missing the intent of the writing.

    I will summarize it briefly and you can read it at the link above, if you wish.

    Basically, it is a constitutional calculation based on state constitutions, that begins with the idea that there are more than one type of citizen and it works its way through to the proof that blacks are not actually citizens.

    So, Ron Paul supporters–when Ron Paul was the only member of Congress to say NO to H.Res. 676 which honored the Civil Rights Act of 1964 on its 40th anniversary, it wasn’t because (as he told you) he thinks forced integration promoted racism, it was because he believes in an ideology that you likely wouldn’t be so enchanted with if you actually looked at it clearly.

    He indeed does believe what he said, when he said, the Civil Rights Act “violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty.” But, what liberty does it really reduce?–only the “liberty” to actively practice racism–right out in the open! Just like the good ol’ days.

    And you must know yourself you had doubts, when you considered, “is he really saying it’s okay for the owner of a business not to hire people based on their race? You certainly felt a pang of strangeness at finally accepting the idea that allowing people to discriminate would bring more peaceful understanding between the races.

    The Trouble With Forced Integration by Rep. Ron Paul

    Pretty amazing really that you could have a racist newsletter for decades using your own name–one that fed the sicknesses of warped minds and later get people to believe that you didn’t know anything about it.

  • Irene Wagner

    From Ron Paul’s article on forced integration:

    “The Civil Rights Act of 1964…failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society. Federal bureaucrats and judges cannot read minds to see if actions are motivated by racism. Therefore, the only way the federal government could ensure an employer was not violating the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was to ensure that the racial composition of a business’s workforce matched the racial composition of a bureaucrat or judge’s defined body of potential employees. Thus, bureaucrats began forcing employers to hire by racial quota. Racial quotas have not contributed to racial harmony or advanced the goal of a color-blind society. Instead, these quotas encouraged racial balkanization, and fostered racial strife.”

    Nowhere does Dr. Paul say that blacks shouldn’t have had the right to vote, or that their children, not the “right color” to attend nearby schools, should have been forced to be bused–or walk–to schools far away from home.

    Paul’s objection to the Civil Rights Act was the fact that it gave busy-work to a host of inept and ineffective federal bureaucrats who micromanaged and mismanaged the lessening of racial tensions.

  • Irene Wagner

    …the candidate of choice for racists of every flavor including neo-nazis and white supremacists…

    Did Ron Paul ever attend church with these neo Nazis? Did he have a white supremacist as his spiritual mentor for twenty years? No. Obama was the candidate of choice for the racist Reverend Wright. There wasn’t a Reverend Wright in Ron Paul’s life. There were people who wrote for and edited the Ron Paul newsletter after Dr. Paul had left politics and gone back to delivering babies in the middle of the night, but they weren’t spiritual mentors.

    But it’s all neither here nor there. Had there been a Reverend Wright for Ron Paul, he might have very publicly, in the middle of his presidential campaign, decided to find somewhere else to worship. The discussions of his being a Racist by Association would not stop, but would continue ad nauseam, just as they have in Obama’s case.

  • Cindy D

    Dear Irene,

    I am not basing my judgment that Paul is a racist on his association with racists. I am saying that racists choose Paul for the same reason they choose to become a part of the Patriot Movement.

    I am basing my judgment of Paul on a comparison of his political positions with the positions found in the that movement.

    In another thread that discussed the newsletters, I stated that I did not think Ron Paul was a racist. That however, was taking him at his word based on a superficial reading. The newsletter prove nothing. It is the rest of it that causes me to suspect that he had complete understanding of what wa in them.

    How, for example, does one justify that the Civil Liberties Act is an illegal act that denies people liberty? Well, it is reasonably easy if your “strict interpretation” of the constitution demonstrates that blacks are not legitimate citizens and therefore have no rights.

    As I move down the issues on Ron Paul’s website I find a startling similarity with the tenets of The Patriot Movement.

    I certainly would be interested in having some evidence that Ron Paul was actually unaware of the newsletters.

  • Irene Wagner

    The director of Austin’s NAACP, Nelson Linder, has been Ron Paul’s friend for twenty years and defends him against accusations of racism. There’s video in this link, too.

    But enough of that. If he’s not elected as President, Ron Paul will probably go back to Washington to start his 11th term as a well-respected Congressman.

    I figure there is a 10% chance Ron Paul will on the ballot in the race for President this November, and a zero percent chance he’ll be running as McCain’s vice president. If Ron Paul is on the ticket, I’ll vote for him. If he’s not on the ticket, I’ll skip voting for president and will vote for (after having campaigned for) local candidates with whom Ron Paul Republicans (not Paultards, Paulites, Ronulans) have found common ground and formed alliances.

  • Cindy D

    Thank you for the info and the link Irene.

  • Irene Wagner

    Cindy D. You’d like evidence that he was actually unaware of the newsletters? I’m assuming you meant unaware of the content of the newsletters. My mailbox is stuffed daily with periodicals of whose existence I am aware, and of whose contents I am not.

    How, for example, does one justify that the Civil Liberties Act is an illegal act that denies people liberty? Well, it is reasonably easy if your “strict interpretation” of the constitution demonstrates that blacks are not legitimate citizens and therefore have no rights.

    The Ron Paul article you linked to answers that question. I provided an excerpt in case you hadn’t gotten around to reading it yet.

  • Cindy D

    Irene,

    I’m assuming you meant unaware of the content of the newsletters.

    Yes, that’s right–the content. I am watching the video.

  • Kyle

    Cindy D. You’d like evidence that he was actually unaware of the newsletters? I’m assuming you meant unaware of the content of the newsletters. My mailbox is stuffed daily with periodicals of whose existence I am aware, and of whose contents I am not.

    Fascinating. Is your name on the front of any of them?

  • Clavos

    Irene,

    Putting aside for the moment the question of whether or not RP is a racist, one has to consider that for years someone wrote racist garbage, put Ron Paul’s name on it, sent it out to a mailing list of thousands and Paul never knew it was going on?

    OK, I believe him. I believe he didn’t write that stuff. I believe he’s not a racist. I believe that he didn’t know a racist was using his name without his knowledge.

    I believe all those things; because I believe them, I KNOW HE’S A MORON!!!

    And I won’t vote for a moron for president, no matter how much he reveres the constitution or how much of a patriot he is.

  • Cindy D

    I would like a Ron Paul supporter to explain to me, if possible, yur understanding of the following issues:

    1)The stance Ron Paul takes on the Civil Liberties Act. For example, how does the act diminish liberty?

    2)How is it possible to support the right of owners to discriminate against people based on race? I don’t mean examples including having people rent a room in your home. I mean examples of employers or denying work to minorities–along that line. In other words, public discrimination that is currently illegal.

    3)Why did Ron Paul Vote no on renewing the Voting Rights Act?

    4)Have any of you actually looked at the Patriot Movement and compared Ron Paul’s understanding of the constitution to theirs?

    Please see my above posts 192-195 for some links

    Thanks, I have to go for now.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Did Ron Paul ever attend church with these neo Nazis?

    He’s the keynote speaker at the John Birch Society this fall. Will that do?

    Dave

  • Cindy D

    Oh and one more thing..it’s a biggie…

    The Patriot movement places the power of government in the states, like Ron Paul does.

    Then, they retrace back to the civil war. They state that the confederate states never rescinded their legislation about slavery and black rights. Therefore, after moving the power from the federal government to the states. The state governments can exercise the rights they have rightly always had to discriminate against blacks.

    Now, I would like to know how Ron Paul’s “strict interpretation” of the constitution differs from the Patriot Movement’s “strict interpretation”?

  • Matthew

    “Did Ron Paul ever attend church with these neo Nazis?

    He’s the keynote speaker at the John Birch Society this fall. Will that do?

    Dave”

    You magically linked the JBS with racism. WHOA! You got a long way to go pal. Try Google Video, read a book, OMG pull your head out of your ass!

    Dave, at first I thought you were just delusional, now I know you are a delusional moron. Keep yourself wrapped up real tight in your blanket of make-believe.

    MEANWHILE, us 1.1 million “fringe” will be out spreading the good news and undermining your best misinfo efforts every step of the way.

  • Pablo

    Dave is a new world order shill, thats the long and short of it.

  • Clavos

    OHHH NOOOO!!

    Shudder! Gasp!

    Not the dreaded NEW WORLD ORDER!!

    OMG, we’ll have to give up our sovereignty to OPEC: or maybe NAFTA, (or is it the UN?) Doesn’t matter, they’re ALL EVIL!!!!

    Quick! Let’s elect the MORON RON PAUL instead!

  • Cindy D

    What no Ron Paul supporters want to answer my questions? How is anyone going to think anything else if you don’t explain?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    There’s nothing wrong with a new world order.

    I ordered a new world online myself a couple of weeks ago. My old world is getting kind of dirty and crowded and contains Ashlee Simpson, so I decided that ordering a new one would be worth it despite the humungous shipping costs. (I still need to figure out where I’m going to keep it though, as the shed is full with our bikes at the moment.) I got an e-mail that said ‘Thank you for your order. Your new world will be delivered to you within 10 business days.’

    Unfortunately it’s being shipped by UPS, so I fear from previous experience that there may be trouble. Worlds old and new do seem to be prone to it.

  • http://jonguyer.blogspot.com JG

    If McCain isn’t Pro-War, what is he?

  • Kyle

    The New World Order is just a COINTELPRO disinfo conspiracy to hide the truth about the Jew World Order

  • Irene Wagner

    Cindy D, I’ll address from #205 your question 2 (how can government support owner’s right to discriminate against people because of race) from your #205–really briefly, though, because I can’t be in here for long either.

    In comment #196, I excerpted a paragraph from the Ron Paul article “The Trouble with Forced Integration” you linked to. It’s absolutely a worthy goal that people not be discriminated against because of race. The problem comes when the all-knowing and tragically bloated and inept federal government sends out agents who assume that a person’s race was the primary reason he was turned away by a prospective employer or landlord. How do they know in every instance that a person WASN’T turned away because he was incompetent, or had failed to pay rent to his last landlord, or had trashed the last place he stayed at? The answer is they CAN’T know, so quota systems were adopted.

    Affirmative action plans, or hiring by the quota system, made embittered racists out of formerly race-neutral recent white college grads–and even BIGGER racists out of people who were forced to carry the burden of picking up the slack of under-qualified coworkers. Personnel departments EXIST to pick THE most qualified people they can find to stay competitive. It hurt business, it hurt morale, and it created another hurdle for gifted, talented blacks or even blacks who were just as good as the average white employee of a company, to overcome: the “they only hired him because he’s black” syndrome. Before he even walked into his first business meeting, he’d lost credibility with employees already disgusted with what affirmative action had done to the work environment.

    Racial discrimination should be stopped, but every program the federal government proposes to effect that change should be subject to scrutiny. Not only are some of the methods unfair to people who are trying to maintain their rental property and run their companies reasonably and without racism, they reinforce the attitudes of the people who still do discriminate based on race. The manifestation of that increased hostility is likely to be far worse than the original job- or housing- discrimination. At the very least, the attitudes of the truly racist people it was intended to target are changed not one whit.

    Well, if you’ll excuse me, there’s a bus I’m about to be thrown under…

  • Ruvy

    The New World Order is just a COINTELPRO disinfo conspiracy to hide the truth about the Jew World Order

    Kyle, you’re lucky you never mouthed off like that in the Burger King I managed in the States years ago. I would have thrown you the hell out and told you never to show your face there again.

    Civil liberties be damned! On private property, you respect the owner’s (or manager’s) wishes or get lost.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Ruvy, if you scroll back up and read Kyle’s previous comments I think you’ll realize that he was being sarcastic…

  • Ruvy

    Kyle may be sarcastic, DD; most of his comments are sarcastic. But if he was being sarcastic, he should come out and say so. It didn’t seem that way to me – and when people did mouth off like that when I managed a restaurant, I did kick them out. I don’t have to take garbage like that and won’t.

  • Kyle

    Ruvy, the comment was me mocking conspiracy morons who believe in that kind of stuff. “Jew World Order” is a shot at the anti-Semitism common to many paranoid conspiracy theories.

  • Cindy D

    That is what I took it as Kyle. As if it was their code word for their evil intentions.

  • Cindy D

    Dear Irene,

    If you stop by, I just want to say I have been reading all day, and will reply to your post later this evening (I hope). I still have a little more research. All very worthwhile and informative as I now know things I would not otherwise have had the opportunity.

  • Ruvy

    Kyle,

    You did what I asked; no offense taken, comment understood. Thank you.

  • Irene Wagner

    Cindy, go ahead, but I’m afraid I don’t have any more time to post more than what I’m going to post here in this comment.

    Paul fired people once they were identified as authors of inappropriate material. Paul’s no moron, but he WAS delivering babies in the middle of the night during that period of delegated newsletter supervision, so there was a delay in identifying and removing the offending authors. If after a day’s research you have more insight into Ron Paul’s character than Austin’s director of the NAACP (in the video I linked you to) has gained after twenty years of friendship with Paul, then you’re welcome to post away; however, there’s little you’re going to dig up after a day of research that I haven’t seen before, and that is likely to me to win me over, even if I DID have time to read it again.

    Cindy, I don’t blame you for accepting as your own opinion my opinion of Ron Paul’s integrity. Continue to do your research, but please spend some time learning about the neoconservatives’ motivation for wanting to resurrect the newsletters and discredit Paul in this way. Ron Paul has opened people’s eyes to neoconservatism and its plans for permanent military engagement in the middle east, and in so doing he’s jeopardized a nice little source of income for stockholders in Halliburton and Blackwater, which don’t profit if there aren’t wars to fight in. Right before the critical New Hampshire primary, James Kirchick of the New Republic magazine tried to destroy Paul by resurrecting the newsletter issue–again, apologized for which Paul apologized twenty years ago–a newsletter that contained articles (not written by Paul) which, understandably, offended people, but unlike the neoconservative’s war, killed no one.

    Arguing in forums is like tilting at windmills, and I’ll admit it is a weakness of mine, as well. But which windmill do you really want to be tilting at, Cindy? I understand that Ron Paul is a far less daunting windmill to tilt at than are either the neoconservatives or their Halliburton. Why not go for the BIG challenge?

  • Irene Wagner

    Dang. fora. OK. That’s it. Must…resist…pull…of…anti…Ron-Paul…articles.

  • Clavos

    “…he WAS delivering babies in the middle of the night during that period of delegated newsletter supervision, so there was a delay in identifying and removing the offending authors.”

    Oh, please, Irene. They were published for years.

    “Ron Paul has opened people’s eyes to neoconservatism and its plans for permanent military engagement in the middle east, and in so doing he’s jeopardized a nice little source of income for stockholders in Halliburton and Blackwater, which don’t profit if there aren’t wars to fight in.”

    Um, Irene, those stockholders can’t move their money from Halliburton to oh I dunno, Exxon Mobil? Caterpillar? Or my favorite: Pharmaceutical manufacturers? ALL of which are better investments than either Halliburton or Blackwater? Puhlease.

    And, once more, it’s not whether or not he’s a racist; it’s the fact that he admits to being stupid when he claims he didn’t know what was going on.

    Either stupid or lying.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Not to rain on Irene’s parade even more, but Blackwater has no stockholders because it’s not a publicly traded company. And Halliburton no longer runs mercs, they spun them off into a separate company (with an instant 17% profit for stockholders) called KBR.

    Dave

  • Ruvy

    Irene,

    I guess you won’t have tome to read this for a while. A doctor, of all people, should be very aware of what is written over his signature (lawyers should too, but too many of them are very aware of the wrongs that get wrote over their signatures). Granted, he wasn’t hearing strains of “Hail to the Chief” when telling those women to push and breathe deep, and “just one more for the west coast, and we’re home, Mrs. Hofstetter” – but like a doctor writing a scrip, or a pharmacist filling one, he has to be aware. And Ron Paul was, even if he felt at times that he wasn’t in control.

    I don’t buy his excuses, madame. Sorry. Mind you, this comes from someone who would have preferred that somebody very much outside the CFR/Rockefeller Foundation/Ford Foundation corporate circle got to power in the States, bearing in mind the little he would be able to accomplish with that power.

    I’m responsible for the nasty things I write, the loans that I don’t pay, the contracts over my signature that I breach, and the promises I do not keep.

    A man of honor says that up-front: it’s called taking responsibility before G-d and man.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Baronius,

    A bit of a belated thanks for your comment regarding my knee surgery. Of course Monday was relatively painless owing to the residual effects of the surgical anesthesia and some numbing agent added by the doctor.

    But by Tuesday morning all bets were off. It is now Thursday morning with little improvement. I’m not one of those guys who is going to grin and bear it. I’ve been taking Norco – a type of hydrocodone – every 6 hours or so. It keeps the pain within tolerable limits, but I have no range of motion, nor can I bear much weight on my left leg so far. On the up side, I’ve been sleeping great!

    B-tone

  • Baronius

    Don’t be testing that range of motion too much. Some of the biggest improvements in medical care have gone largely unnoticed, in the field of physical therapy. They hurt you just as much as they used to, but when they’re done, they’ve actually restored the use of the limb.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Baronius,

    Yeah, I’m supposed to get set up for physical therapy, but I’m presently being steered through some bureaucratic BS at the VA because the actual surgery was outsourced, and some of the VA people think that the PT should be outsourced as well. It makes little sense to me, I’d think the VA would rather keep it in-house if they can. But I know little of the workings and politics that goes on there. In the mean time, I guess I’ll cancel my trampoline lessons.

    Thanks again.

    B-tone

  • Jake in Salt Lake

    Wow, where to begin on this one? This is an obvious hit-piece on Dr. Paul, but why does the author feel so compelled to try denigrate Dr. Paul if his supporters are so fringe?

    I’m going to let the author in on a little secret, supporters of Dr. Paul are the new majority. There is nothing fringe about a candidate that gets more donations from active members of the military in one quarter than ALL other candidates combined.

    I am a State and County delegage for the Republican Party in Utah and I can tell you that when party leaders were calling for “Unity” behind McCain, our delegates were booing. On the other hand, Dr. Paul’s name was applauded. McCain will be the nominee, but he will not be the next president. The old brand of conservative, of which Dr. Paul is just one of many, will be there to rebuild the party in November when Obama is elected.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    There is nothing fringe about a candidate that gets more donations from active members of the military in one quarter than ALL other candidates combined.

    You mean Obama, right?

    Dave

  • STM

    Isn’t it amazing that a group people supporting a candidate who was punted in the primaries because he just didn’t get enough support can continue on with this nonsense.

    I mean, if the majority of those who voted in the primaries had chosen Paul, there’d be nothing to argue about.

    But they didn’t, and it’s part of the democratic process. Most people accept that those kinds of results are part of what a great country like the US is all about, and they move on.

    But those who don’t, and one can therefore only assume that they don’t believe in the democratic process, keep whingeing about the raw deal Paul got, and how the man who was chosen (McCain), is only going to be a seat-warmer, etc.

    That’s obviously not a majority view among the party’s voters. Get over it. It’s an election. Everyone gets their chance in a fair fight, and Ron Paul lost. Too many people who thought some of his ideas were good were scared off by some of the others, and by some of the lunatic fringe supporting him.

    Back to basics though: It’s un-American not to accept that he lost.

    Come on, this stuff’s been happening for 200 years in the US.

    And why, now that the dust has settled, wouldn’t those Paul supporters who claim to love America back McCain in the interests of party unity?

    Or is party unity, and a fair democratic process, actually not what they want at all??

  • Rod Smith

    As far as the Iraq war, Iranian war, or another, McCain would make Bush look like Ghandi by comparison. “Mr. 100 years in Iraq.”

    Furthermore, I would grant you are right about the fact that the Paulistas wouldn’t know “A Republican value if it hit them in the ass.” Who would? I’ve got it … we will vote for ANYONE who supports a Neoconservative foriegn policy …even if thier stated adgenda is “The jobs aren’t comming back, the illegals aren’t going home, big government is here to stay, we will be in Iraq for 100 years, but vote for us because we’re not Democrats.”

    You’re right …the author of the letter should have written CONSERVATIVE.

  • Tom deSabla

    STM, your comments are inaccurate.

    Paul was blacked out. It wasn’t a fair fight at all. Most Americans only know what the MSM tells them, and if the MSM doesn’t talk about a candidate, then to most people that candidate doesn’t exist.

    Anyone who’s been paying attention knows what has been done to Ron Paul. However, his strategy of running as a Republican did get him into the debates, where millions of people heard ideas they’d never heard before.

    Those people aren’t going anywhere, and the only “un-American” happening in this country is that people are losing their freedom. It must be stopped. No one was doing a damn thing to stop it before Paul and his tards started making waves, so it’s no wonder that all these phonies who have been sitting on their hands for 20 years are upset.

    Too bad.

  • Cindy D

    Dear Irene,

    I have learned enough about Ron Paul, by now, to write a book. Therefore, I am going to make only a few comments and give a link that pretty much sums up what I think about Ron Paul.

    About the newsletters: Ron Paul owned up to the newsletters in his 1996 campaign for Congress. In fact, at that time, he defended what he wrote. “Old News”? “Rehashed for Over a Decade”?

    Re#215, et al

    Ron Paul lives in a world where a lot of things like civil rights abuses and racism occurred not because of their entrenchment in our society since its founding (as history shows) but, because the Federal Government overreached its limits.

    Paul basically believes the federal government was limited by the framers and this is where he starts. Therefore every addition to the constitution giving federal law power over states, very likely, starting with the 14th amendment, is anathema to Paul.

    Oh, with an exception. Paul tries to pass his Act to have human life recognized as starting at conception and writes language into the act to prevent any review by the judiciary. So, basically Paul is for federal intervention when it suits his fancy, as well as tossing out checks and balances.

    His explanation of why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 failed to “achieve racial harmony”, are nothing more than manufactured anecdote–“the world according to Paul.” He also presumes to be able to read the minds of data collectors.

    The Civil Rights Act, if not “achieving racial harmony”, (whatever that actually means, as I’m not reading about daily lynchings) served to achieve justice for blacks. Thats all it needed to do in my opinion.

    Anyone who would read history post-civil war and do a little uncovering of attitudes held toward black by both the north and the south would disagree with Paul’s claims (unless of course they had their own agenda, which if anything is certain, Paul does). In fact, Douglas A. Blackmon, in Slavery by Another Name has written a well-documented account of how slaves were reinterred into slavery after the civil war and up until around 1940 through forced labor camps. The southern states eagerly arrested, tried and sold blacks into labor camps, because they could. Slavery was an economic force in the south long after the civil war.

    Basically, Paul is a “paleoconservative”, “american patriot”, “New World Order” conspiracy theorist who has a lot of support from 1) average people who sense a problem and perhaps see some of his positions anti-war, limited federal government, etc. as appealing. And, 2) the most vile extremist groups in the nation. I have yet to find a single racist, bigoted, narrow-minded, paranoid, secessionist, organization that doesn’t support Paul. Because, if Paul had any power at all he’d be the messiah to these people. Why do you think that is so?

    For the record, my political views tend toward even less government than someone like Paul’s. I believe in liberty, beyond what Paul conceives. But, since my politics are not likely to be popular in the near future, I’ll take the protections that the American People fought to have the federal government institute, for now.

    Paul supporters need to be reminded of the adage, “the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.”

  • Cindy D

    I’d like to qualify and add to one thing I said.

    “Paul basically believes the federal government was limited by the framers and this is where he starts.”

    Which, of course is true. But, this is not only where Paul starts, it is where he ends. Or, better, it is his end. What I intended to point out, is that Ron Paul’s beliefs about the effects of such additions (as the 14th amendment, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act) are handy constructions after-the-fact. In other words, Ron Paul doesn’t object to the Civil Rights Act because it failed to promote racial harmony, rather, he sees it as an unconstitutional usurpation of state sovereignty and finds it flawed merely to serve that position.

    So, it goes like this: the federal government has no enumerated right to create “do-gooder” laws which would usurp states’ sovereignty to regulate themselves. Therefore, where the federal government has done this, the amendments are unconstitutional and prima facie void. Conveniently, Ron Paul constructs “other reasons” to “sell” his ideas to certain credulous, if well-meaning, potential supporters. So, if everything, including the 14th amendment (by the way “american patriots” consider the 13th amendment void for failure to be legally ratified) is unconstitutional according to one’s “strict construction”, then whose “liberty” is being violated in creating these amendments?

    Ron Paul for all his “anti-collectivism” recognizes the “liberty” of two collective groups: property owners and Christians. The fact is that the original property owners were white, male Christians. All laws, in which, the federal government has usurped state sovereignty have been in violation of the “liberty” of these individuals and no one else’s.

    And, in saying this, I have answered my own rhetorical questions about whose “liberties” Ron Paul is aiming to protect and why racists adore him.

    P.S. I meant to include this link to verify my assertion that Ron Paul is a New World Order conspiracy theorist.

  • blakmira

    I’m not a racist and I adore Ron Paul.

    I’m curious, however, who assholes with lobotomies adore. As an obvious member of that group, please tell us which candidate *you* adore?

    P.S. No personal attacks are allowed in comments, only in the article? That’s hardly fair and balanced.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Someone made a personal attack on you in the article, Blakmira? Where?

    Dave

  • Cindy D

    I’m not a racist and I adore Ron Paul.

    Then, you may want to inquire into the background of the next blue-eyed white guy you talk to at your next Ron Paul meet-up.

    Interestingly, the Cult of Scientology seems to be targeting Ron Paul supporters for its advertising campaign.

    The video The Road to Serfdom on the blog at Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty site ends in a Scientology commercial.

    If I were you Blakmira, I wouldn’t talk to anybody at a Ron Paul meet-up.

  • Cindy D

    I mean, you know, just to be safe.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I was wondering how long it would be before the scientologists took advantage of the similarities between their beliefs and the philosophy of the Randians who are often attracted to the Ron Paul movement. Personally I find both despicable. Individualism without morality or any kind of conscience can only lead to anarchy or oppression.

    Dave

  • http://denotchka.wordpress.com DENOTCHKA

    UPDATE: REALITY CHECK IF WE DON’T GET BACK TO THE CONSTITUTION WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE BECAUSE BARACK H. OBAMA IS A FREKAING HARD-CORE COMMUNIST AND HE’S JUST PASSED THE NDAA AND SOPA. THE FIRST ALLOWS FOR UNDETERMINED DETENTION AND SOPA CAN GETYOU ARRESTED FOR HAVING MUSIC PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND OF A VIDEO OF YOUR KIDS DOING CUTE STUFF! YOU’RE A FREAKING IDIOT! WHY DIDN’T YOU SATND UPWHEN YOU HAD THE CHANVCE YOU DUMBASS? WE NEED JOURNALISTS WITH DOME FREAKING GUTS AND SOME FREAKING NERVE! I’VE HAD ITWITHYOU NWO, BRAINED WASHED WHACKOS WHO WANT ALL BUT 1 MILION PEOPLE DEAD ONW WAKE THE HECK UP!!!!!