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A List of Dire Threats to the Security of the Nation of Israel

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The government of Israel has just proven to the world how magnanimous they are to the 1.5 million men, women, and children of the Gaza Strip. Even though so many rockets were launched by the militants, even though the Palestinian militants dream of the day when Israel falls, Israel has found it within its great heart to ease the restrictions of some items that have been prohibited during the three-year blockade of the Gaza Strip. Those items the Palestinians now have access to include:

  • Potato chips
  • Cookies
  • Candy
  • Shaving cream
  • Spices
  • Juice
  • Jam
  • Soda

According to the Associated Press, "basic foodstuffs such as instant coffee and coriander were barred as luxury items, while more expensive foods such as herbal tea, salmon steaks and low-fat yogurt were permitted."

But at least the children of Palestine can get to taste candy and chocolate for the first time in three years, right? I mean, how very thoughtful of the Israeli government to finally allow such a grand luxury to the children!

Now just to show that Israel is still quite serious about the threat that the Palestinians pose to national security, here is a partial list of what Israel is still prohibiting (minus the items listed above):

  • Fresh meat
  • Plaster
  • Wood for construction
  • Cement
  • Iron
  • Glucose
  • Industrial salt
  • Plastic/Glass/Metal containers
  • Fabric (for clothing)
  • Flavor and smell enhancers
  • Fishing rods
  • buoys
  • Nylon nets for greenhouses
  • Irrigation pipe systems
  • Hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries
  • Spare parts for tractors
  • Planters for saplings
  • Heaters for chicken farms
  • Musical instruments
  • Size A4 paper
  • Writing implements
  • Notebooks
  • Newspapers
  • Toys
  • Sewing machines and spare parts
  • Heaters
  • Horses
  • Donkeys
  • Goats
  • Cattle
  • Chicks

As we can all see by the list of still-prohibited items, Israel is taking no chances whatsoever — because fresh meat can be poisoned and tossed over the wall into Israel proper. Fabric can be woven into leisure suits that might be surreptitiously sold to young Israeli college students. A Palestinian might blow a sour note that might disturb the sleep of someone way over in Tel Aviv. And as for size A4 paper, well, that might be used to start that bane of all civilization, junk mail!

Horrors!

So we can all carry on smartly now knowing that the government of Israel really does try to strike a fine balance between the security of the nation, and the human rights of the 1.5 million Palestinian men, women, and children of the Gaza Strip.

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About Glenn Contrarian

White. Male. Raised in the deepest of the Deep South. Retired Navy. Strong Christian. Proud Liberal. Thus, Contrarian!
  • Ruvy

    Well, Glenn, I see you are learning the fine art of satire – or trying, anyway. You have a ways to go yet, but you are making progress….

    But all in all, your article is just one more piece in the crowd of BS that is constituting a journalistic lynch of this country, one more of a series of articles written by useful idiots who buy the Wahhabi line of destroying Israel, who buy Helen Thomas’ line of ‘Jews, go home to Germany’, who buy the ‘Jews back to the gas’, and all the other garbage. A comment to this article that talks about this journalistic lynch goes this way.

    We are being lynched, the ”progressive” mob is no different than a lynch mob, that’s justice, progressive-style. This has nothing to do with facts, rational analysis, reasoned arguments. If you don’t like the analogy to a lynch mob, then think of it as a pogrom on an international scale. What we are really seeing is the setting of the stage for another genocide.

    This woman, born in an Arab country, knows whereof she speaks. I see, Glenn, that you haven’t forgotten your southern roots, and you still know how to throw the lynchman’s rope over the tree. But it is not the black who is the strange fruit (you’ve apologized and attempted to expunge that desire from our soul), it is not the individual Jew, it is the entire Jewish nation. Indeed, George Orwell’s prophetic, nightmarish vision of “Negative Utopia” is timelier than ever-and its warnings more powerful.

    The sources you cite, the AP (which writes articles in a way that inflames anti-Israel opinion), and an anti-Israel blog site, both indict the credibility of your words.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Get used to it, Glenn. Once a lyncher, always a lyncher. It’s in the blood.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Very nice, Ruvy, connecting the person’s upbringing and tying it to his mature opinions on unrelated subject: once a racist, always a racist.

    Glenn may be misinformed, or a “useful idiot,” to use your worn-out expression, but a Jew-hater he is not. And you know it.

    And yet, in all your frenzy, you can’t really stop yourself, can you? from foaming at the mouth.

    Zing is right. Perhaps you should leave your land of milk and honey and seek solace elsewhere. It’s too hot even for the sound in mind. And it’s definitely detrimental to your mental health.

    Let the mensch slug it out among themselves. You’re too fragile for that kind of action.

  • Ruvy

    Glenn,

    You didn’t think I was going to stop with just one comment, did you? I want you to understand clearly that you are part of something bigger, and greater than yourself. The Hassidic masters say that when a man does something for the sake of something that is greater than himself, he connects with his spiritual self. Whether that connection is good or evil is another question.

    In this case, the something greater than yourself is the journalistic lynch of the State of Israel and by extension, the entire Jewish people.

    But I don’t want you to think that only non-Jews engage in this sport of Jew-hatred. Here, we have the description of Tony Judt, an American Jew indulging in self-hatred – probably because he thinks it will protect him from being killed by Jew-haters in America, of whom Helen Thomas is a super-annuated and retired version.

    From the article:

    In 2003, Judt wrote that he, personally, was willing to give up his right to return to Israel or rather, that he was willing to turn over his (undesirable) right of Jewish return to the Palestinians whose claim of return was a more righteous one. In 2003, Judt also concluded that “the very idea of a ‘Jewish state’—a state in which Jews and the Jewish religion have exclusive privileges from which non-Jewish citizens are forever excluded—is rooted in another time and place. Israel, in short, is an anachronism.”

    So, you see, you are part of something far bigger. You have Jews, Muslims, Christians and “humanitarians” all marching in chorus with you. “Get rid of Israel!” they shout, and you do not realize it, Glenn, but you are shouting right along with them.

    This government does the utter minimum to defend us, following all sorts of ridiculous restrictions – that make us a lot more civilized than you are, in the end. You can complain about our blockading a territory that is at war with us. But when you do, you turn yourself into a hypocritical liar. You are attacking a Covenant People and its right to defend its own land against the bloody handed and cowardly murderers who attack it.

    If you want to believe the liars at the UN, the Arab League, Hamas, etc., etc., etc., you are entitled to. But in joining in this evil crusade to destroy this nation, you are worse than Hamas or HizbAllah. At least they say straight up “die, Jew!” You pretend to be a friend.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    So that’s your defense? That it’s all just a lie? Did you not think the same thought might have occurred to me when I first read the blog site? That’s why I needed something with much more credibility to back it up. Thus the article by the Associated Press:

    In the first tangible step to temper the uproar caused by last week’s raid, Israel only narrowly expanded the list of items that can enter by adding little more than snack foods and spices. It did not permit the most sought after items, such as cement, steel and other materials needed to rebuild the war-devastated territory and it was unlikely to ease international pressure.

    Look at the statement of Maxwel Gaylard, the U.N.’s most senior humanitarian official in the Palestinian territories:

    “The international community is united in seeking an urgent and fundamental change in Israel’s policy of blockading Gaza. A modest expansion of the restrictive list of goods allowed into Gaza falls well short of what is needed. We need a fundamental change and an opening of crossings for commercial goods.”

    The oh-so-anti-Israel blog site that is my other reference was compiled earlier this year, BEFORE the restrictions were eased…and it lists materials restricted then that the U.N. official stated were now allowed, and lists materials that the U.N. official stated are STILL restricted…

    …and it doesn’t take much to realize that the dried fruits and spices, potato chips and candy that are NOW allowed into the Gaza strip by Israel were restricted beforehand, perhaps even to the beginning of the blockade.

    In other words, Ruvy, the statement of the U.N. official and the AP article BOTH lend significant credence to the blog article.

    So the onus is now on YOU, Ruvy, to prove that the blog site is false. Prove that Israel IS allowing musical instruments, writing utensils, notebooks, and fresh meat into the Gaza strip.

    And if you can’t, then you are in the SAME position as the good citizens of countries whose leaders were taking those countries down the path of crimes against humanity…citizens who never imagined that their OWN country might be committing such heinous crimes against so many people.

    Can you defend Israel’s restrictions of such basic materials to 1.5M men, women, and children for three years and counting? CAN YOU? Or perhaps you should realize that patriotism to the nation of Israel does NOT mean the same thing as supporting and defending the actions of the Israeli government…particularly when the actions of your government is giving your enemies LEGITIMATE CAUSE to hate your nation and your people.

    Sometimes, Ruvy, standing up against your own government is the patriotic thing to do…and the righteous thing to do before God.

  • Ruvy

    And no, Glenn, I will not put this stick down. The real issue is that Turkey, Persia, Syria/Lebanon have gathered together in an alliance to go to war and destroy this nation. All the rest is irrelevant. This came from a group on Facebook that supports Israel:

    Subject: Thankyou for your support for Israel!
    Shalom everyone!

    I really do not think it will go badly for Israel but for those who rise up against God and wants to destroy Israel. Ahmadinejad made a statement like this, “Israel’s attack on the Gaza convoy was a major step towards Israel’s destruction”. He said that on Monday this week before a crowd in Istanbul. These are serious statements he pinches himself out. What surprises is that the world does not take him and what he says seriously. Otherwise they had done something long ago. It is not Israel that is a threat to the world but those who want to destroy Israel (democracy) and the West. I am grateful that there are so many groups on Facebook that supports Israel. And continues to do so.

    Now, Glenn, you can sit in Seattle and pooh-pooh all this. I can’t. The planes fly overhead every day. We are already in a covert war with the Turks, who wanted a hot war, and were threatened out of starting on on 31 May by Obama. The blockade is merely an attempt to stop destruction of Tel Aviv by Hamas. But the sword of destruction already hangs over her from the north, from HizbAllah.

    That is why I am so disgusted by this cavalcade of lies, deception and false accusations coming from decent and intelligent people who should know better.

  • Ruvy

    And now, Glenn, try the truth, for a change!

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    I remember when we were shown that America had invaded Iraq on false pretenses, and how America had tortured prisoners…and continues to imprison ‘terrorists’ even with no evidence against them. The Republicans first claimed all these were lies, and even now try to justify or conveniently forget these crimes against humanity.

    You are doing precisely what the American Republicans did…and are still doing. In your eyes, Israel can do no wrong…even when it’s outlawing sending CANDY to tens of thousands of innocent children.

    Even North Korea – though they are the worst regime in the world – doesn’t go that far, Ruvy.

    “it’s all just lies!”. We’ve all heard that one before, Ruvy – but this time it applies to you.

  • zingzing

    “In your eyes, Israel can do no wrong…even when it’s outlawing sending CANDY to tens of thousands of innocent children.”

    well, you know… with, supposedly, 40% of gaza lacking running water, how the hell are those candy-munching kids going to brush their teeth? this might actually be a small blessing.

  • zingzing

    oh, shit… 40% was 2 years ago… now 90% of gazan tap water is undrinkable.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    So I watched your youtube link…and you know what? I see absolutely NOTHING there to bolster your case.

    Why?

    1) The crates of veggies – they weren’t on the ‘prohibited’ list, as were candy, many spices, dried fruits, and the rest of the stuff that I listed. I saw absolutely NOTHING in the video that’s on the prohibited list that isn’t at least 3 years old.

    2) The nice houses, the polo fields, the nice cars – I wish you’d come the the Philippines sometime and see just how much the places and the streetlife the video showed had in common with the really nice areas of the Philippines (but the PI has nicer places than that). What you do NOT see in the video are the not-so-nice places, just as in the Philippines.

    Perhaps a better comparison is Cuba – it’s been under an American embargo for over half a century. They’ve gotten by – and there’s some really nice places in Cuba, too. But again, you don’t see the not-so-nice places.

    Ruvy, even North Korea has nice places. Maybe Somalia doesn’t. But NONE of these excuse Israel’s actions.

    The damning fact, though, is the EMBARGO, Ruvy. Those ‘ten tons of food aid from Israel’ mean NOTHING to a people – and to those spectators who see the plight of those people – when they are denied access to goods that the rest of the world takes for granted!

    Can you not understand this? Is your hate for the Palestinians so great that you would condone whatever your government does to them?

    Perception, Ruvy, is EVERYTHING…and the rest of the world is beginning to see a part of Israel’s actions that are putting you in a very bad light. You yourself have seen my opinion of Israel change here on BC. Do you really think I’m an isolated case? Do you really, in this age of the Internet and the 24-hour news cycle?

    Israel had better learn that there is a place for diplomacy. Look at Egypt – once they attacked Israel, and Israel nearly drove tanks into Cairo in return…yet now, even though they may not exactly be your friends, they are certainly among the least hateful of your enemies. Despite all the scorn you almost certainly have for the occasion, you can thank the Camp David Accords for a relatively peaceful border on that front, at least!

    There is a place for diplomacy, and for the control of perception, and for holding one’s country to a higher standard. Israel had better learn these, and quickly.

  • Ruvy

    Sometimes, Ruvy, standing up against your own government is the patriotic thing to do…and the righteous thing to do before God.

    You do not even know the meaning of that statement, Glenn. I’ve been standing up against my government for nearly all the time I’ve lived here, and standing up against its treason against the Jewish people here.

    And this is not a democracy. I’m just not a big enough threat for them to want to kill me – yet

  • Jordan Richardson

    I’m just not a big enough threat for them to want to kill me – yet.

    You’re about as harmless as a one-legged puppy, Ruvy. Yappy thing, but other than that you’re just a fluffy diversion from what’s really going on in the world.

  • Zedd

    I’d be interested to find out what everyone thought of Helen Thomas’ comments.

  • Ruvy

    Gosh, Zedd. Ruvy on the spot, always willing to be of assistance, dear.

    Let’s have a look at how anti-Semitism didn’t retire when Helen Thomas did. First, Helen Thomas Forced Out For Ruining Journalists’ Respectable “Anti-Israel” Facade. She Shouldn’t Have Been. And second, Helen Thomas, an unsung heroine of the Zionist cause. From the second article:

    Veteran reporter Helen Thomas uttered only a few words. She said that Jews should ““get the hell out of Palestine” and go home to “Poland, Germany and America and everywhere else.”

    It is an elegant, truthful, concise and accurate summary of the ideology and goals of the “humanitarians” who support the cause of the Hamas. It cut through the reams of self-righteous and evasive obfuscation about the real goals of the anti-Israel and anti-Zionist campaign. This is what it is really all about. Boycotts, blockades, apartheid slogans, negotiations, complaints based on bogus international “legitimacy” are all a smokescreen to cover up that simple goal.

    Thomas’s utterance was only a part of the truth perhaps, because the whole truth is too unpalatable for decent people to swallow. The unknown voice on the Turkish “freedom flotilla” who told the Israel Navy, “Shut up! Go back to Auschwitz!” was probably closer to the actual spirit of these “humanitarians.” The idea is about the same though.

    Thomas illustrated, as no Jewish spokesperson could have done, the only really important issue in the anti-Israel campaign in general, and the campaign for Hamas specifically. Who and what is being supported in the name of peace and humanitarianism? The Hamas are as truthful as Helen Thomas. They write in their charter that their goal is the physical annihilation of the Jewish people, to fulfill the “words of the prophet.” A flotilla of fanatics screaming “Khaibar Khaibar 0 Jews! The army of Muhammad is approaching” came to aid the Hamas. Demonstrators for the wonderful cause carry signs that say “I hate Juice” and scream “Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas.” All this is somehow prettified and swept under the rug, to spin the cause of Hamas into a humanitarian crusade.

    Thomas said what all these progressive “peace” supporters are thinking. That was a big mistake, though it is to be noted that a lot of people actually think she should not have resigned.

    Let’s summarize that long read in a simple series of sentences for you, Zedd. I wouldn’t want you to work too hard….

    Helen Thomas cut through all the bullshit.

    “Jews – get the hell out of Palestine! Go back to Germany, Poland, America, wherever…”

    That guy on Mavi Marmara – “Shut up! Go back to Auschwitz!”

    Let’s shorten that to what it really says.

    DIE, YOU DAMNED JEW! DIE!

  • Zedd

    Ruvy,

    Wouldn’t you love it if she actually said that or even meant that.

    By the way, where are most Jews in Israel from?

  • Ruvy

    Actually, Zedd, that is what she meant. But, being a polite woman of good breeding and manners, she would never actually say that. In speaking to the young Jews who accompanied the rabbi who interviewed her, she was being polite – and diplomatic, but as truthful as good breeding and manners would allow.

    But to answer you, the ethnic background of most Jews here are countries like Morocco, Kurdistan, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Tangiers, Syria, Yemen, and they are known as s’faradim or mizraHim. The smaller amount of Jews here have backgrounds from Poland, Germany and Russia and are known as ashkenazim. The vast majority of American, French, Dutch, Belgian, English, Australian and South American Jews can be divided into one of the two categories above and are split with a majority in favor of ashkenazim.

    But whatever their ethnic background, most Israeli Jews were born in Israel.

  • Ruvy

    Pity the poor starving Gazans! It looks almost like a concentration camp, said Rep. Ron Paul (R. Texas)….

  • Jordan Richardson

    I suppose, if the pictures of people enjoying the beach and a lovely bit of produce are to be indicators of the high standards of life, that we all ought to just move to Gaza to enjoy the sun and surf and wonderful conditions there. Amazing, really.

  • Mark

    …slightly less grotesque than the propaganda showing ‘the good life’ in Polish ghettos.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Indeed, which is made all the more horrendous when we consider the source(s) of such shit.

  • Zedd

    Okay then she should have said “they need to go back to Morocco, Kurdistan, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Tangiers, Syria, Yemen, and they are known as s’faradim or mizraHim. The smaller amount of Jews from , Germany and Russia known as ashkenazim. The vast majority, to America, Frence, The Netherlands, GB, Australia and South Americal.

    Would that help?

  • Mark

    One has to admire the simple elegance of Mr Kossover’s ‘final solution’ — exterminate everybody.

  • Ruvy

    Would that help?

    Well, not exactly. You see, in the end, all of us originate in Israel – and the DNA tells the story, and it doesn’t lie. So we are not the Boers who walked in and tried to enslave the Zulus and steal their lands. This is OUR ancestral land, and the key question with the Arabs here is, are they squatters, immigrants from Iraq, Syria, or Egypt – or are they originally Jews – forced to convert to Islam by various Khalifs?

    If they are the former, that is immigrants from Iraq, Syria, etc., then the generous and humane thing to do would be to give them the opportunity to live here in peace, and if they don’t want to, to buy them out – WE own this land from time immemorial not they – we are the “Zulus” here, and they are the “Boers”. The less humane thing is to just drive them out. I prefer to do the generous thing and offer to live in peace with them – IN ISRAEL.

    If they are Jews (or Samaritans) who were forced to convert, we have an entirely different issue and require an entirely different approach. We are both “Zulus” and the land belongs to ALL of us. That approach has been developed and will be highlighted in a future article.

    Either way:

    1. The terrorist leaders and murderers and their supporters, need to be killed, and terrorists in jail now who have killed need to be executed, so Arabs understand that being in an Israeli jail is guarantee of neither life nor honor.

    2. The ‘Palestine Authority’ needs to be dissolved permanently, and its hate organs need to be ended.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “Actually, Zedd, that is what she meant.”

    and if you believe that, then you are an idiot. but you don’t believe that. let’s look at what you had to say:

    “Let’s shorten that to what it really says. DIE, YOU DAMNED JEW! DIE!”

    let’s see what it really says:

    I THINK YOU ARE ALL FOOLS! HAHAHAHA! I’LL JUST SAY ANYTHING LOUD ENOUGH AND YOU’LL BELIEVE I ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT! I CAN’T REALLY BE THIS IDIOTIC! IT’S JUST NOT POSSIBLE! FOR A MAN WHO CAN STRING AN ENTIRE SENTENCE TOGETHER AND YET HAVE NONE OF THE MENTAL CAPABILITIES NECESSARY TO DRAW CORRECT CONCLUSIONS! AND FROM ALL PICTORIAL EVIDENCE, I DO HAVE A MOUTH, BUT I CONSTANTLY SPEAK OUT OF MY ASS. THANK YOU. GOOD DAY.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “the DNA tells the story”

    sort of.

    ruvy: “I prefer to do the generous thing and offer to live in peace with them – IN ISRAEL.”

    it’s the RIGHT thing, but i’ll just be glad to see something sensible come out of your mouth now and again.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    Well, not exactly. You see, in the end, all of us originate in Israel – and the DNA tells the story, and it doesn’t lie.

    Um…DNA doesn’t lie, but you have to actually get your sources straight first. To wit: “Anatomically modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens in Africa in the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago. By the beginning of the Upper Paleolithic 50,000 BP (Before Present), full behavioral modernity, including language, music and other cultural universals had developed.”

    I will not ignore science in order to satisfy a religious belief.

    So we are not the Boers who walked in and tried to enslave the Zulus and steal their lands. This is OUR ancestral land

    That, Ruvy, is in YOUR view. Just like the land I’m on once belonged to the Indians – I’m not going to just give it up. I cannot blame the Jews for wanting to return to a defensible state of Israel – but neither can I blame the Muslims who lived there for over a millennium.

    and the key question with the Arabs here is, are they squatters, immigrants from Iraq, Syria, or Egypt – or are they originally Jews – forced to convert to Islam by various Khalifs?

    At one point some of my ancestors were Celtic pagans, and others in my ancestry tree were Catholics. That makes me neither Catholic nor a wiccan.

    If they are the former, that is immigrants from Iraq, Syria, etc., then the generous and humane thing to do would be to give them the opportunity to live here in peace, and if they don’t want to, to buy them out – WE own this land from time immemorial not they – we are the “Zulus” here, and they are the “Boers”. The less humane thing is to just drive them out. I prefer to do the generous thing and offer to live in peace with them – IN ISRAEL.

    To give Israel credit, you do have religious freedom there – nothing wrong with that! After all, there’s two locales there of the Church of which I am a member (Jerusalem and Tel Aviv). And if you can buy the Palestinians out, that’s well and good, too, as long as you’re offering fair market value for their land and NOTHING LESS. But the original land owned by the people of God was in the Garden of Eden…which, according to Moses, was apparently somewhere near the land of Ur (which is where the children of Adam and Eve went to find wives…who were apparently part of a civilization that predated the Garden of Eden because their nation was already named(!)). The ancient land of Ur, IIRC, is somewhere near modern-day Iraq.

    If they are Jews (or Samaritans) who were forced to convert, we have an entirely different issue and require an entirely different approach. We are both “Zulus” and the land belongs to ALL of us. That approach has been developed and will be highlighted in a future article.

    Again, I can argue that the land now called Israel is not your ancestral lands…but the practical fact is you now hold and defend that land. Your nation can do pretty much as it will as long as you are able to defend that land…and as long as it does not commit crimes against humanity. Such brings consequences, Ruvy.

    1. The terrorist leaders and murderers and their supporters, need to be killed, and terrorists in jail now who have killed need to be executed, so Arabs understand that being in an Israeli jail is guarantee of neither life nor honor.

    Honor? How honorable is it to deny candy to tens of thousands of children? Ruvy, if it were only the terrorists who were being affected by Israel’s blockade, I’d have no problem whatsoever with it! But there are innocent women and especially children who are also being affected by it, Ruvy – and Israel’s actions are against them, too, and such is NOT honorable. More than ANYthing else, that is what offends me about the actions of the government of Israel…and your defense of those actions.

    2. The ‘Palestine Authority’ needs to be dissolved permanently, and its hate organs need to be ended.

    As you yourself mentioned above, either absorb them into the population or buy them out…but if you buy them out, you must pay fair market value for their property (except for those who are shown to support terrorism with more than just words).

    But in any case, whatever YOU may think about the region being the ancestral lands of Judaism, they believe the SAME region are THEIR ancestral lands…and in THEIR view, what YOU think simply doesn’t matter. What does matter is that in their view, for the past three years, Israel has punished 1.5M people for the actions of several thousand people…many of who weren’t from the Gaza strip region to begin with!

    You don’t punish the innocent along with the guilty, Ruvy – but that is what Israel is doing.

  • Ruvy

    Glenn,

    You are assuming you know what ‘their’ view is. You don’t. Until a few weeks ago, your arguments might have held a lot more water as they are structured. But now they don’t.

    Unlike you, I do have an idea what ‘they’ think. There are new facts in evidence that you are not really aware of. As I said, there will be an article on this, and other interesting developments around here that you wouldn’t be aware of.

    There is one perception of what the resident Arabs think right now that you do not know. Right now, it is a matter of honor to go to an Israeli jail. We don’t execute terrorists as do the Arabs. So they can afford to think of “honoring” themselves with a stretch in an Israeli jail. If the terrorists in jail are executed, it won’t be such an ‘honor’ to be in an Israeli jail at all. No publicity, no martyrdom fighting the evil Jew, no 72 virgins to screw for eternity. Just a stretched neck and a corpse.

    All you seem to be concerned with is the “humanitarian tragedy in Gaza” – which is a lie. I’m concerned with my neighbors down the hill in Sinjel, Jiljilia and Lubin.

  • zingzing

    actually, glenn… while the “out of africa” theory is fairly solid, there is the competing “multiregional” theory, stating that modern man developed in multiple locations around the same time. in fact, a few months ago, i read an article about how this evolutionary cousin of homo sapiens was found all over the world, and co-existed with what we consider modern man (and very likely intermingled as well). this suggested that the final evolutions (as it were) of modern man happened after our ancestors left africa.

    i’ve been looking for the article, but i can’t seem to find it… anyway, just throwing that out there. i don’t think we know quite enough to safely and definitely say that the “out of africa” theory is anything more than a theory.

  • zingzing

    of course, that was a few months ago, and i’m no evolutionary scientist, but that seems to be what i recall them saying.

    that’s not to agree with ruvy. “the dna” tells us a lot, but it doesn’t tell us that israel belongs to the jews.

  • Ruvy

    I don’t need to go back as far as the Neanderthals to prove my concepts, or back to “Judy”, that hominid who lived thousands and thousands of years ago.

    Jewish DNA round the world is pretty close, and the guy who looks like a Turk who is Jewish is going to have DNA very similar to the Jew who looks like a Russian or a Finnish peasant. And the DNA of the three Jews will differ markedly from the ethnic Turk, Finn or Russian. Similar research is going on with Afridi Pashtun as well to see if there is a DNA link. The DNA tells us that we are all one people. The archeological evidence from 2,000 to 2,500 years ago in Israel establishes that this is our land. So, yes, Israel belongs to the Jews. One land for one people.

  • http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/danmiller/ Dan(Miller)

    Gosh Darn! Why can’t we all just get along?

    Dan(Miller)

  • Irene Wagner

    Now that Dan(Miller) has pointed us to inspiration from the animal kingdom…

    …watch as Jews and Palestinians go Swimming Together

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Not Judy. Lucy.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    This is the latest on Jewish common genetic ancestry.

  • John Wilson

    The biggest threat to Israel is the danger of a military coup by the IDF, which already seems to be dictating Israeli policy.

    The combination of military coup and unbridled mysticism by the ultra-conservative maniacs will end with chaos and degeneration.

  • Zedd

    Ruvy,

    The old Testament tells the entire story.

    That DNA has been moving all over the place, beating people up and taking over people’s land, claiming that the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERS gave it to them. What a racket!!!!!

  • Zedd

    roger,

    Was this a study of Jews (the religious folks) as opposed to people who have ancestry dating back to that region? For instance that they find a distinction between say a Palestinian and a Russian Jew and an Ethiopian Jew and a Russian Jew? Would the later have a closer link????

    Also, what is this really all about. Sounds Hitleresque.

  • Zedd

    zing,

    I hate it when we blacks get overly sensitive about stuff that is in no way racists. Basically what happens is that some thick “leader” misunderstands what was being said (a la the Obama New Yorker cartoon) and makes a big to do about it, getting the even thicker masses all worked up.

    The Helen Thomas comment would fall into that category. Just because Poland and Germany were mentioned, we have to assume that she was invoking the holocaust. Ruvy is actually hoping that she was so he would have something to feel slighted about.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Zedd,

    I think you can link up to the original presentation published in a scientific magazine. (it’s referenced in the article)

  • Zedd

    roger,

    Thanks. I’ll do that.

  • Zedd

    roger,

    So this is part of the Human Genome Project.

    What is interesting is that Middle Eastern Jews and European Jews — were found to have split off from one another about 2,500 years back. Wow those are some prodigal sons!!

    I also found it interesting that “it is closely related to the non-Jewish populations of both Europe and the Middle East. In addition, each of the Jewish subgroups was linked to a Middle Eastern ancestry, and represented a degree of mixing with the non-Jewish population in which each group had lived”.

    So Jewness exists but it is vague. What a surprise.

    Can we move on and pay attention to people who really need help like ohhhh the millions who are starving or uhmmmmmmm say the Palestinians.

    But certainly we are supposed to take Ruvy’s rude behavior because he is chosen by the Creator of the Universe. He can do no wrong. That DNA makes him untouchable and he has every reason to throw a tantrum and pout because we are not recognizing is preferred status.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, yes. It’s part of the “Chosen People” mantra, and now he cites genetic theories to substantiate his story.

    There isn’t an adequate translation for the word chutzpah; yet, it fits to a T.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “So Jewness exists but it is vague.”

    It’s part and parcel of Semitic origins (and I’m not talking of Judaism as a religion: two separate things.) And it’s not a nationality either. More like a bloodline.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Or lineage.

  • Zedd

    I know that there has been a great deal of conversation about what defines a Jew. I suppose this information can be useful to make that genetic link.

    What this data also illuminates is the possibility of multitudes who have that genetic marker (since a split can be traced as far back as 2500 yrs ago) and aren’t aware of it. What that does is make the distinction less relevant. Also the similarities with the neighboring populations (other Semites) means that there were splits that occurred much earlier. Again, at what point in the do geneticists distinguish Jewness?

    Any people can choose to cluster themselves together and call themselves a people. People can describe themselves by any characteristic. However there is a concern about a preoccupation with racial purity or in this case genome purity. Obviously there is an assumption that there is a benefit of sorts to being genetically Jewish. Is that need for such a distinction similar to what other groups have done in the name of genetic preservation.

    Is what is going on with the settlements more a commentary on racial superiority/privilege than anything else that is mentioned publicly.

    Will this genetic marker be used to determine who gets to stay in Israel? So if you were removed from Israel 62 years ago, you cant come back but if you left 2500 yrs ago, you can come back, because of you genetic marker. What will be more interesting is when they start testing Palestinians and finding the same marker (and they will with many). Then what?

  • Zedd

    Ruvy,


    So we are not the Boers who walked in and tried to enslave the Zulus and steal their lands. This is OUR ancestral land”

    You cant have a document (the best selling book of all times) that chronicals your history, which clearly states that you took the land from others… your neighbors.

  • http://desicritics.org Aaman

    Relevant, the settlers are themselves leaving Israel

    Over the past decade, many Jews disenchanted with official Israeli policies have voted with their feet by migrating away from Israel.

    The numbers indicate

    About 14,000 Israeli Jews left annually between 1990 and 2005. According to a 2007 poll, half of Israeli youth between ages 14 and 18 express the desire to live outside of Israel, which they see as having a bleak future.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Perhaps you can explain to me the genetic marker concept, Zedd. I didn’t quite get it.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Another thing to ponder about, Zedd.

    Only the offspring of Jewish mother is considered “Jewish,” according to their own views. I’m not aware of the biblical reason for this determination, but I’m certain there must be some biblical basis.

    From the genetic standpoint, however, I don’t know whether this reasoning is valid, unless of course there is evidence to the effect that female genes are more determinative as regards lineage than male’s.

  • Ruvy

    Will this genetic marker be used to determine who gets to stay in Israel? So if you were removed from Israel 62 years ago, you cant come back but if you left 2500 yrs ago, you can come back, because of you genetic marker. What will be more interesting is when they start testing Palestinians and finding the same marker (and they will with many). Then what?

    Zedd,

    If you were paying attention to my comments to Glenn, I told him there are new facts in evidence, and either you look it up yourself or wait for my analysis of the issue. That’s your choice, not mine.

  • Ruvy

    Finally, there is something known as the “Aaron marker” in the “y” chromosome. The majority of Jews who claim to be kohanim, priests and descended from Aaron, the first High Priest, have this marker in their DNA. In addition, it is found amongst the Lemba, who also claim to be descended from Israelites and Jews.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “Poles who happened to be Jewish by faith were among her closest friends.”

    There were none to speak of, Silas. And certainly none in Poland which was for the most part antisemitic.

  • Zedd

    roger,

    Not being a geneticist I cant be sure that i am using the correct termination. By the marker, I mean the element that has been distinguished; which clusters these individuals into a group.

    I love your observation about the matrilineal aspect. I don’t think its biblical. Perhaps we can get Ruvy to tell us without writing a novel.

    What’s interesting about that observation is that there is a dangerous development that could come from it. If one observes that “religious” definition of a Jew, then one would have to forgo the scientific one. If one refused to ignore the genetic data, then they have to deal with science as an explanation including evolution for natural phenomenon. What that ends up doing is cancelling out what substantiates the Jews as the chosen race…. Just a thought.

  • Zedd

    Did I say termination? Hahahaha. Sorry. I meant terminology. The more I read my posts the more concerned I get. hehe I guess not as much as I should be.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You are raising interesting issues, Zedd.

    First of, I’m not certain that the genetic model necessarily commits one to evolutionary theory. It’s just a concept explaining lineage. Second, I have an inkling that the genetic argument may well support the religious one.

    The matrilineal aspect is another thing, though. It would be interesting to hear the geneticist’s account.

    Wouldn’t it be something, however, if the ancients were right about it being the predominant gene carrier?